DF: Does the world matter?

[Ulairi]

Originally Posted by Bruno

No problem with that, but I think you're arguing about an entirely different thing than people here are talking about. You're complaining when you have a world described, possibly quite detailed, but you don't feel the rules don't back it up, well that's no fun.

The thread is debating whether the world should be described at all.

I'd be interested in hearing from folks that run DF without any real world described at all. I mean, my group, I just make it up and we game along and write it down. So we're creating a world through play. but, that's generally how I like to play games. Even when I ran D&D, I liked Greyhawk so much because the world wasn't over described like Forgotten Realms.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Bruno

The thread is debating whether the world should be described at all.

Yup. And as I've seen, run, and experience, the world doesn't matter for a -"pure" DF style game.

However, being humans, we generally prefer to be able to categorize stuff, so stuff gets categorized through play, regardless of intent and thus a world ends up getting fleshed out.

For a sterling example of this, read Peter Dell'Orto's Felltower MegaDungeon Campaign. It starts with nothing more than the Town (Stericksburg) and the Megadungeon (Felltower), but as time goes on places around the world get "colored in" such as Cashamash and Molotov, even though the PCs never go there.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Yup. And as I've seen, run, and experience, the world doesn't matter for a -"pure" DF style game.

And I, for one, am glad that DF is written without a world at all. Everything being left in intangibles makes it easier to build up your own campaign.

[Donny Brook]

Dungeon Fantasy campaigns where the world matters have a special term: "fantasy".

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Dungeon Fantasy campaigns where the world matters have a special term: "fantasy".

I disagree.

DF really is meant to be "Back to the Dungeon" which is a not the generally more broad "fantasy".

I was poised to run a DF game where the world mattered, it was geared to be more like the Blackmoor games where the PCs were going to end up incharge of a minor kingdom and went 'dungeon diving' to fund themselves and their kingdom goals. It was more properly a mix of DF and Fantasy and I was going to give the PCs 20 more starting points to cover more social skills.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Dungeon Fantasy campaigns where the world matters have a special term: "fantasy".

Are you suggesting that D&D hasn't been dungeon fantasy in over 20 years (maybe 30)?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by corwyn

Are you suggesting that D&D hasn't been dungeon fantasy in over 20 years (maybe 30)?

Are you suggesting that everyone who runs D&D uses Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, or anything else for that matter?

"D&D" has world settings. Lots of them. So does GURPS. Saying GURPS has lots of world settings doesn't mean GURPS Dungeon Fantasy comes with one (or needs one), and on a related note, that people running D&D OR GURPS Dungeon Fantasy are using a setting that came with one of those systems. (As opposed to a homebrew, or from another publisher, or from a media franchise...)

The D&D publishers have been happy to sell us settings for decades. They've also been happy to sell us a great many other kinds of products, from novels to Deck of Many Things props to endless stacks of splat books. I don't think I ever needed or even used The Complete Guide to Elves, although I bought it anyways.

Which brings me around to why I think this thread is bordering on the ridiculous.

It's like arguing over whether you're still playing D&D if you only use the three core books (or the original white booklets, or whatever), or if you're still playing D&D if you use every splat-book and supplement and prop and utility and miniature and hit point tracker and status ailment tokens and flight height tracker and and and...

In the sense that the entire ecosystem of D&D products since the original booklets are not necessary to play D&D, then no, none of it "matters" to play D&D. Including the settings. And no, the setting isn't needed to play Dungeon Fantasy. So no, it doesn't matter.

And because it doesn't matter, you can do whatever you feel like with it (including nothing, or everything). Because it doesn't matter.

[Johnny Angel]

I don't think a specific world is necessary to get a game started.

I agree with what a lot of Bruno has said.


However, I also think having a few bullet points to give some context to your players helps get the game moving.

When I have run a DF game in the past, I tried to do what some others have suggested: I used the player characters to help build the world. If a player said their character was from a place, or that they worshipped a god, or they were part of some organization, it became part of the world. Though, some players are more comfortable with this than others, and I found that (as said) having a few bullet points established helped get things moving by giving the players some ideas to work from for character creation. In turn, their ideas then gave me a few things to build on and flesh things out a little. I didn't sketch out everything, but this gave me enough to inform my decisions and answers when I was asked if/where things were available in the game world.

"You're starting in the town of [place]. The surrounding environment is [climate/significant feature]. Recently, [event 1]; [event 2], and [event 3] happened."

In addition, I ask the players to come with how their character knows at least one of the other characters.


So, it might turn out like one of the following...

1) "The campaign starts in Blancodorf, a community of about 500 nestled in the mountains. An especially harsh winter has come. In recent months, the most popular subject to talk about has been a business dispute between two rival cobblers. A few weeks ago, a few employees of the Apollo Mining Company (they mine "everything under the sun") were killed in an unexplained explosion."

2) "The campaign starts in Biszumeau, a trading city of around 9000 which rests on a small hill sandwiched between two rivers. For the past several years (following a war) the city's control has been split between two kingdoms as part of a peace agreement, with a small wall in the middle and each side under the control of a minor noble from each kingdom. About a month ago, a meteorite crashed nearby. Travelers report being accosted by a group of dinomen who have started to gather around the crash site."

3) "You're all on board a prison ship crossing the Grandeblau Sea. It doesn't matter if you committed a crime or not. Whether guilty or innocent, some circumstance lead to your incarceration for some amount of time. Thankfully, today is the day you will be released from your sentence and transported to the settlement of Fraisanfang. Unfortunately, the stigma of a criminal record makes gaining traditional employment difficult. Fortunately, Fraisanfang has some unique opportunities. A week ago, you received a letter stating that an adventuring company is offering work to newly released prisoners who are willing to take a few risks. The same letter stated that Antiguo Altmann, an old semi-retired adventurer, is looking to score a treasure which has long eluded him, but he is having trouble putting together a team because the local people tend to be the settled, secure, and unadventurous types. All who are interested are to visit the Outside Inn and give his name to receive a free night's stay. Then, in the morning, a carriage will arrive to transport them to The Paladin's Plate for free pancakes and a discussion of his offer."



Certainly, you could run a game without doing any of this and just make it up on the fly too. A lot of games start that way. For me, I've found that having a rough outline or a few bullet points helps both my players and myself. It helps the players make a few character-making decisions and it gives me at least some basic framework from which to build or invent things as the game moves forward.