Dungeon Fantasy and Sword&Sorcery

[Sword-dancer]

Originally Posted by johndallman

The setting is unlikely to be grimdark, .

if it´s not grim, dark and nasty it ain´t S&S

Conan, Elric, Solomon Kane etc are sword and sorcery.

Magic is usually or often a power of darkness, powered by fear, pain, blood sacrifice corrupting the sorcerer who often made a pact with dark powers(cosmic obscenity is the word here), there are exceptions but they are far and few, in Conan i remember exactly three if the Priest of Asura was one.

The trappings could be different, an Oriental Realm could be so colourful as in High Fantasy, but under the trappings you will find dark adepts, sorcerers who sly kings in their bedroom 1000 leagues away with one of his hairs

[Anders]

Yes, but it's not grimdark. The dark is there to be overcome, not be resigned to. The sorcerer is overthrown. The serpent is slain. Chaos is defeated. Order is restored.

Anyway.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I'd imagine a lot of the templates will work almost as-is in the more serious S&S genre, although you'll probably want more investment in "background" skills than is expected. You might be better off starting your characters out using the 125-point Henchman templates and giving them an extra 25 or so points for fleshing out an actual character instead of a mere murder-hobo (if you want a more epic feel, go ahead and use the full 250 point delver templates and give them 50 "fleshing out" points). Magic users may be unavailable, or may only be available as a lens on one of the more mundane classes. Mundane gear from the books is probably fine, but magical gear is probably a no-go.

Are there actually any good Lenses for "Dabbles in Magic" for DF?

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Anders

Ok, thanks. Healing will be an issue, though. Hmm...

You can do a bunch of things with existing GURPS building blocks, to achieve a much subtler kind of healing that the one provided by the Healing advantage or the various spells from GURPS Magic.

[fifiste]

Extra life with gimmick - you wake up to discover to have been healed back to health/life by mysterious stranger/forces etc.
(Put in a clever and or horrifying bargain perhaps for a cost for your new life)

[Anders]

I'm thinking of giving them Path magic.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Anders

Ok, thanks. Healing will be an issue, though. Hmm...

S&S is a very cinematic genre, so cinematic healing rules are very much in order. "That which does not kill me makes me spend a character point between scenes to heal completely," sort of thing.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Anders

I'm thinking of giving them Path magic.

That has a useful Ritual that enable Healing at 6x normal speed. Plenty good for a narratively structured adventure. Just not enough for room and Turn-based DF.

Also, make S&S characters _tough_. I'm as sure as anything that Conan has 20+ HP and Very Rapid Healing.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Anders

Ok, thanks. Healing will be an issue, though. Hmm...

Sort of, but as people have said:

TBC's suggestion could be implemented in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy without changing anything else. As GURPS Power-Ups 5: Impulse Buys notes, the Flesh Wounds rule, miraculous recoveries, spending points to resurrect people, and other "survival" options are especially inappropriate for DF because such stuff badly devalues clerics and other healers. If there are no clerics and other healers, though . . . well, then why not? As that caution implies, spending points to heal is an adequate substitute for magical healing. It has the added bonus of not putting generalized magic in the heroes' hands, which isn't very S&S. Such options are recommended for GURPS Action – which, as others have pointed out, actually has a lot in common with S&S (just not tech level).

FB's suggestion is sort of built into Dungeon Fantasy, in that the game features 250-point templates that err on the side of tough for warriors. If you insist that everybody be a non-spellcaster, this toughness will follow naturally. If that isn't quite enough for you, then raise the power level and have everyone pick an extra 50+ points of survival traits. Again, exploit the Action connection . . . see Me and You, Buddy, True Grit, and Action Demigod in Pyramid #3/53: Action for ready-made lists of suitable enhancements. You could apply one of these as a mandatory campaign lens.

Also note that S&S is full of NPC medics: herbalists, sympathetic priests, various vaguely talented healers, etc. The early genre is somewhat sexist, and healing appears to be a standard talent for female NPCs. All you need to do to make that work in Dungeon Fantasy is make potions and cures the sorts of slow, fussy things that take hours to days around the campfire. That is, healing is a service to be acquired in settlements, between adventures, and just kind of hand-waved.

Originally Posted by Anders

Yes, but it's not grimdark. The dark is there to be overcome, not be resigned to. The sorcerer is overthrown. The serpent is slain. Chaos is defeated. Order is restored.

This is essential. S&S is ultimately low-tech Action where the sorts of heroics described in Impulse Buys fit. While bad things happen (e.g., both Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser had their girlfriends murdered early in their career), and though the setting might be gritty (for instance, Robert Lynn Asprin's city of Sanctuary), the whole point is that the heroes keep going and winning and winning and going. A crucial facet of S&S is swords trump sorcery – swords in heroic hands stand in for good and sorcery symbolizes evil. The good may be a little rough around the edges, and the evil might sometimes reach a truce with good (like Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser's wizardly patrons, or Ischade in Sanctuary), but that doesn't make things grimdark.

[Anders]

It's a good thing I have PU5. Maybe I should read it again.

Hmm... I'm guessing half a bucketload of Luck-related advantages, or a full bucketload of Fate points? Of course, that's no different from DF.