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Old 01-21-2013, 03:38 PM   #1
Dammann
 
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Default GURPS & Paizo

On his blog, Douglas Cole describes his foray into Pathfinder from a player's perspective. Toward the end of the post, he mentions that it would be nice to see Golarion translated into GURPS, but that this is unlikely to happen.

It got me curious. What are the good reasons he alludes to? Is it a matter of licensing costs? It seems to me like those should scale with a company's customer base, but I know nothing about publishing. Is it a matter of protection against competition? It seems like GURPS is no threat to Paizo, and cross fertilization would actually be beneficial to both companies, encouraging GURPS customers to buy more low-crunch Paizo products, while some Paizo enthusiasts would try and perhaps buy GURPS. Is it a lack of interest or manpower for developing less profitable properties? Is experience with past licenses so adverse that new licenses, even those from within the hobby, cannot be contemplated?

I am just curious. On the face of it, I would think this was a win-win scenario, with benefits for both companies, as well as players. I am sure that I am underestimating some obstacle, or overestimating some benefit, but I wondered what the people at SJG judge them to be. I've found in my own business (food) that there are potential synergies between competitors. There is a point beyond which we are competing for finite customers, but it seems to me like table top games have some room for growth, with new customers being brought into the hobby.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:12 PM   #2
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Default Re: GURPS & Paizo

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What are the good reasons he alludes to? Is it a matter of licensing costs?
He notes a crossover "is unlikely for what I presume are a whole host of reasons," which is to say he assumes that there are reasons but doesn't know for sure. I agree with him, though. The problem, in brief, is that there's not likely enough benefit to justify the cost.

There are a couple of substantial costs involved here. One is the license. I've no idea what the cost of a license might be, but I imagine that cost eats up a lot of whatever additional revenue the licensed product might bring in. Then there's the cost of actually adapting it. Writing a setting is, frankly, easy. Writing stats is the part that takes work, particularly if you're working to SJ Games's specifications. Getting the stats right in Mirror of the Fire Demon took vastly more of my time and that of the editorial staff than setting up the narrative framework, location descriptions, and so on. And then there's the opportunity cost. There's the question of whether or not Kromm or PK could be spending their time working on something more profitable than an adaptation; then there's the question of whether SJ or Phil, who'd be involved in negotiation over the license, could be working on something more profitable.

And what do you get for that effort? Quite possibly, not much. Or at least not enough. I recall someone at SJ Games noting that licenses generally don't expand the customer base. That is, an adaptation of property X for game Y tends to appeal to people who are already fans of both X and Y rather than bringing fans of X into game Y or get players of game Y interested in property X. Now, this is not to say that licenses are just plain money-losers. We wouldn't see the various Munchkin licensed products if they were. However, neither can we rely on licenses to suddenly make viable products that would not be otherwise. And there's reason to think that they wouldn't be otherwise. Adventures and settings have historically simply not sold particularly well, certainly not as well as crunchy rulebooks. That's the GURPS audience. It's DIYers, not people who use canned material.

This is not to say that it's impossible for such a thing to work. Could a line of GURPS-adapted settings and adventures with proven appeal to non-GURPS gamers do well? And, indeed, well enough to justify the increased costs? Maybe. But that doesn't look like it's the way to bet, and given that some of those costs are front-loaded in the license and SJ/Phil time, it's a bigger than average bet. In better times, maybe they'd give it a shot. In these sadly degraded days, it's probably too great a risk.

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it seems to me like table top games have some room for growth
One might be tempted to observe that that's putting a brave face on the fact that tabletop RPGs have been in a steady decline for years. They've got a lot more up to go than down.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:01 PM   #3
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One might be tempted to observe that that's putting a brave face on the fact that tabletop RPGs have been in a steady decline for years. They've got a lot more up to go than down.
On the flip side of that, OGRE is due for a release this year, and there's more than a little buzz about a re-release or new version of Car Wars...
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: GURPS & Paizo

Just as a note: there are plenty of questions raised above that we cannot or will not answer. Licensing, as with all internal business matters, is a subject whose details are not properly the purview of anyone except the parties involved.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:25 PM   #5
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On the flip side of that, OGRE is due for a release this year, and there's more than a little buzz about a re-release or new version of Car Wars...
Perhaps there should be a Pathfinder version of Ogre.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:56 AM   #6
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Fair enough!

Thank you for answers, speculation, and jokes. Mr. Hackard, I don't feel entitled to answers or anything, but I was curious enough to ask.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:03 PM   #7
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On his blog, Douglas Cole [...] mentions that it would be nice to see Golarion translated into GURPS, but that this is unlikely to happen.

It got me curious. What are the good reasons he alludes to? [...] I wondered what the people at SJG judge them to be.
In addition to what Andrew has already said, I'd like to note that you're asking SJ Games to provide insight on Douglas' personal thoughts. Any reasons, issues, etc., that he raises are something you'd need to ask him about -- we never even said anything on the matter. :)
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:35 PM   #8
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Perhaps there should be a Pathfinder version of Ogre.
I like it. Those Paizo Adventure Paths seem not at all shy about plotlines with giant, world-shattering, cosomological impact. I could see some epic characters trying to save Golarion from this technological terror that SJG has constructed. Though it's going to take a lot of space to write down the Ogre's BAB for every attack per round. And you really, really don't want to give it its AoOs.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:36 PM   #9
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I phrased that poorly. I supposed that there was some consensus on why this sort of thing, while nice in theory, was a bad idea.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: GURPS & Paizo

In a market like the rpg industry with so many new entrants, diminishing cost of entry, and many with risk taking behavior, sjgames strategy is most sound, pragmatic, and mist effective given that this will be the status quo for the the while.
It in such that the safest route is buying up market share from those who have lost in the market. (Like hero when it downsized). Imo
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