01-26-2021, 08:24 AM | #41 | |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Re: The "Tinker" fantasy trope or historical occupation?
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I would say I agree with this description more than someone that says "Tinker" is an insult. I just not how I know the word. I have never heard it used as an insult in my actual life. |
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01-26-2021, 10:10 AM | #42 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: The "Tinker" fantasy trope or historical occupation?
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I might wonder _why_ you had dropped this guy into the game but I'd probably peg him as a con-man out to divest me of some silver.
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Fred Brackin |
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01-26-2021, 03:47 PM | #43 |
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK
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Re: The "Tinker" fantasy trope or historical occupation?
It's not that. Speaking as an English speaker in England, I can confirm that that's what the verb "tinker" and the noun "tinkerer" mean in a general sense here, too, and the noun "tinker" just means "the mostly extinct trade of repairing pots and pans". It's not a derogatory term in itself. It's specifically when it's used to indicate the Roma or Travellers that it's considered rude.
This is a guess, since I'm not from Ireland or Scotland and haven't had much chance to observe the word in the wild, but I'd imagine it's like the word "gypsies", which some modern Roma and Travellers also don't care for - it was a name used for them by other people, and since a lot of those people didn't approve of them, they started to use "gypsy" as if it was an insult in itself. My guess is that the same thing has happened with that particular "off-label" use of "tinker". Would be interested if anyone who's from Ireland or Scotland has another explanation, though. ("Gypsies" has the added objection of having started life as a mistake, though I'm guessing a lot of the history-loving users of this forum already know about that! It was short for "Egyptians", back in the Middle Ages, but they're not. Latest thinking is that the Roma's ancestors were probably from India, but definitely not Egypt. Who knows how that idea got started.)
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Looking for online text-based game at a UK-feasible time, anything considered, Roll20 preferred. http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=168443 |
01-27-2021, 02:53 AM | #44 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Udine, Italy
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Re: The "Tinker" fantasy trope or historical occupation?
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01-27-2021, 10:08 AM | #45 |
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LFK
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Re: The "Tinker" fantasy trope or historical occupation?
It's a more recent fantasy series, but Patrick Rothfuss's Kingkiller Chronicles has a recurring theme of traveling tinkers offering trades or services to characters, and it inevitably comes up that they needed whatever was offered later on.
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01-27-2021, 10:39 AM | #46 | |
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Re: The "Tinker" fantasy trope or historical occupation?
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Going back to the Fantasy usage, wasn't this the trade of at least some of the dwarves in The Hobbit? Somewhere in between, for those who have - or might wish to read Anne Baer's Medieval Woman: Village Life in the Middle Ages - probably best described as "historical fiction" - there is a pretty well depicted visit from a travelling metalworker (what we might call a tinker), who is shown to be both a valued craftsman, a welcome source of news, a subject of suspicion (since he's not from anywhere near the village), and an object of pity (since he doesn't belong to a community). The book is actually well worth reading in its own right for a (moderately) historical depiction of the life of a peasant in early medieval England. Last edited by The Colonel; 01-27-2021 at 10:47 AM. |
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01-27-2021, 11:17 AM | #47 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: The "Tinker" fantasy trope or historical occupation?
Paradoxically, poor roads likely meant more demand for traveling crafters, as poor infrastructure prevented villagers from traveling to local towns to receive similar services (and prevented the evolution of towns away from areas without shipping via water). As roads improved, more towns could be supported in an area, as food distribution became more efficient, and more villagers could travel to towns for services, as the effective cost of traveling was reduced. Of course, traveling crafters could likely offer cheaper services than town crafters, but the continued improvement of infrastructure would likely progressively reduce their business until they could not continue to make a profit.
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01-27-2021, 11:35 AM | #48 |
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Hall of Fallen Columns
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Re: The "Tinker" fantasy trope or historical occupation?
A few posts asked about pop culture context: my sole contribution is the fact that the Ultima series of games (from about 1985 to late 1990s) had "tinker" as a PC or party member class/profession. The major NPC Iolo and his wife Gwenno were tinkers, and usually vital to the player's main quest. Later in the game series they were the ones who brought "new gadgets", including crossbows (the latest in military innovations at that tech level).
As far as "tinker" being a derogatory word in parts of the UK, it is sadly regrettable that linguistic changes bring new unacceptable and disrespectful undertones to previously neutral word usage. John Le Carré's finest novel might lose some of its recognizability if we had to censor it to merely "Tailor, Soldier, Spy". |
01-27-2021, 12:29 PM | #49 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: The "Tinker" fantasy trope or historical occupation?
In general, being a traveling crafter is a less pleasant life than being a settled crafter, so 'tinker' isn't going to be a high status occupation.
Interesting thing I just found out: the word 'journeyman' (the rank between apprentice and master in medieval craft guilds) does not actually generally refer to being a traveler, but in some areas being a wandering journeyman was considered an important part of training. |
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