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Old 10-19-2014, 07:28 AM   #41
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
Kyle Aaron also remarked that as a personal trainer, he could see that the GURPS rules for physical actions were designed by people who didn't get out much.
I think that's why Peter Dell'Orto, who generally looks at rules with a jaundiced eye, likes Trained ST as well. ST is a skill that can be trained with fairly rapid and satisfactory results.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:12 AM   #42
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Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

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I think that's why Peter Dell'Orto, who generally looks at rules with a jaundiced eye, likes Trained ST as well. ST is a skill that can be trained with fairly rapid and satisfactory results.
I'm a couch potato forced to exercise for survival. Even I know that there's a world of difference between walking muscles and bicycling muscles despite all being of the legs.
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Old 10-19-2014, 10:21 AM   #43
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Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

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I'm a couch potato forced to exercise for survival. Even I know that there's a world of difference between walking muscles and bicycling muscles despite all being of the legs.
Similarly, after twenty years of various types fencing/HEMA/Battou-Jutsu, I can say that sword muscles can very easily leave you with toned legs and arms, and quite the beer gut. And still not be able to tote around 50 pound weights easily (ie 50 pound bags of animal feed).
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Old 10-19-2014, 12:53 PM   #44
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Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

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Parrying isn't all about bullheaded strength vs. strength. What gurps calls a parry includes a skilled bit of just getting out of the way that doesn't fall under unskilled dodge.
Yes, but parrying an attack which you can't stop is harder (a smaller range of techniques works, and you have to perform them very well). An 80s-Arnie with enough skill not to swing wildly would be someone who you really wouldn't want to give a chance to swing at you, because while he wasn't the quickest he could certainly deliver force.

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Your second comment warrants explanation. I'm not necessarily disagreeing as I don't get out enough to vet such rules.
Any explanation would just involve searching this forum for the quote, and you can do that as well as I.
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Old 10-19-2014, 01:10 PM   #45
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Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

What is Trained ST?
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Old 10-19-2014, 01:16 PM   #46
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Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

What if these archers are using warbows that simply have a higher ST rating than they can use without penalty? The skill penalties might be worth it for the extra range and damage* against easy-to-hit battlefield formations. Edmund the Archer might switch to an easier-to-draw hunting bow that he can actually hold and Aim with if asked to shoot a deer or stalk poachers in the forest.

* I don't see any crystal clear indicators whether an overstrength bow allows full use of the bow's ST. The closest is this, which suggests to me that you do get the benefits:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Tech p.75
Every bow or crossbow also has a rated ST, the ST
required to draw and use it at full efficacy, which determines
damage and range; see Bows, Crossbows, and Rated
ST (p. 74). Weaker users can shoot a stronger bow, but will
suffer the standard skill penalty and FP loss for using an
over-strength weapon.
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Old 10-19-2014, 01:34 PM   #47
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Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

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What is Trained ST?
A concept introduced in Technical Grappling: for some skills, your effective ST is higher when using them by an amount depending on which skill it is, and you DX-relative skill level. For example, Wrestling uses the fastest progression, so if you have Wrestling at DX+1, your effective ST is +1, at DX+2, ST is +2, and at DX+4, +3.
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Old 10-19-2014, 01:37 PM   #48
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Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

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What is Trained ST?
A bonus to ST based on relative skill level, like the RAW bonuses from Wrestling (or even the damage bonuses from striking skills and Weapon Master).

The concept is expanded on a bit in The Last Gasp, Pyramid #3/44: Alternate GURPS II and is a core concept in GURPS Martial Arts: Technical Grappling.
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Old 10-19-2014, 02:48 PM   #49
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
A concept introduced in Technical Grappling: for some skills, your effective ST is higher when using them by an amount depending on which skill it is, and you DX-relative skill level. For example, Wrestling uses the fastest progression, so if you have Wrestling at DX+1, your effective ST is +1, at DX+2, ST is +2, and at DX+4, +3.
. . . and +4 at DX+7 and +5 at DX+10. It's an extended version of some of the ST and/or damage bonuses that you get for using certain skills.

I've discussed at some length variations and expansions on the concept on my blog.
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Old 10-19-2014, 03:57 PM   #50
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Default Re: Typical ST for a war bow?

I think Trained ST will fill my desires much better than my house-rule. Just a bit of tweaking so the scaling works with Half-Stat defaulting and I think I may replace all the old high skill bonuses (like for karate).

Plus I can keep Strongbow around for really amazing/cinematic archers, like elven archers and heroes.

How do people feel about using Strongbow as an alternative benefit for an archer talent?
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