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Old 12-22-2014, 06:19 AM   #1
Anders
 
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Default Practical underground weapons

If you really were to fight in a cramped dungeon, what weapons would you use? Warhammer dwarves use huge, swinging two-handed weapons and that's probably the least useful weapons for underground fighting. I see dwarves as more of the Roman legion - a disciplined machine capable of overwhelming any barbarian horde by using formation tactics and close-combat weapons like the gladius. But what are your thoughts?
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:25 AM   #2
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Practical underground weapons

In my current Dungeon Fantasy campaign, I've two "underground" races: dwarves and earthseer elves. The dwarves favor thrusting weaponry like shortswords or spears with the occasional axe or warhammer. Ranged weapons are prodds or crossbows. Earthseer elves favor knives of all kinds and other "close in" weapons because of their natural stone-melding capabilities. They two use crossbows, but also like small throwing weapons that are basically spike shuriken. That's not to say that won't use larger weapons - they prefer slashing weaponry because (again) of their abilities to ignore the cramped conditions around them.
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:27 AM   #3
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Default Re: Practical underground weapons

Spears, pikes, etc. would be rather useful. Half-swording would allow a strategic retreat, until you reach an area with enough room to start swinging a blade. That said, horrible death traps are a very likely defense mechanism.
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Old 12-22-2014, 07:07 AM   #4
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Default Re: Practical underground weapons

For cramped, winding tunnels, a short spear is probably ideal - a spear because you lack the room to swing, and short because a longer weapon can get caught on things. For too cramped of an area, something Reach C or Reach C,1 would likely work better.

For narrow, relatively straight tunnels, you'll likely want a longer spear - but may need to have a spearhead on both ends, in case you need to turn around and face foes behind you.

With the above in mind, you might actually want to have a spear built much like the Collapsible Pole (DF8, p24) - several smaller threaded sections that can be combined into a longer pole, but with a spearhead on two of the sections. It won't be as robust as a proper spear, but so long as you've got a bit of time to prepare for each section of the tunnels, you'll be able to have a weapon of optimal length at all times.
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Old 12-22-2014, 07:11 AM   #5
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Default Re: Practical underground weapons

Bang-stick? Powerful, thrusting motion, compact.

Formation fighting seems like not the best specialty for caves. Most underground 'terrain' is very broken, making it hard or even impossible to move in close order, and you rarely have room for a broad frontage. Plus a lot of the best formation weapons are unsuitable for cave fighting.
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Old 12-22-2014, 07:52 AM   #6
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Default Re: Practical underground weapons

I think the shortsword would be ideal. Something like a gladius - there have been proposals to expand Reach from 1 to C, 1; I think the reasoning is sound. And it can chop as well, as Livy tells us. As for formation fighting... that would depend on the area. Dwarf tunnels would be straight and smooth, while orc mines would be a nightmare of a three-dimensional maze.
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Old 12-22-2014, 10:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Practical underground weapons

Vietnam tunnel rats were equipped with only standard issue .45 caliber pistols, bayonets and flashlights, although most tunnel rats were allowed to choose another pistol with which to arm themselves. This is probably too cramped for what you mean, though.
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Old 12-22-2014, 11:03 AM   #8
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Default Re: Practical underground weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
I think the shortsword would be ideal. Something like a gladius.
People who have actually done this sort of stuff in wars this century tended to go with a pistol with a modest cartridge (a big charge leaves you too deafened when you fire it in a small space) and a knife or bayonet. Some of these were into the shortsword range, but relatively short mostly thrust knives with a knuckle guard are more typical.

Short spears, which can be used through small holes from parallel tunnels, have proved pretty valuable for people defending, rather than attacking into, tunnel systems. And brass knuckles and sharpened spades were relatively popular in closely related trench warfare. That latter one certainly suggests that small axes are not that unreasonable a choice.
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Old 12-22-2014, 11:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: Practical underground weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
If you really were to fight in a cramped dungeon, what weapons would you use? Warhammer dwarves use huge, swinging two-handed weapons and that's probably the least useful weapons for underground fighting. I see dwarves as more of the Roman legion - a disciplined machine capable of overwhelming any barbarian horde by using formation tactics and close-combat weapons like the gladius. But what are your thoughts?
I should think the best analogue to Dwarven underground warfare is urban combat. Literal underground combat has taken place for millenia, as an adjunct to siege warfare. But it has not taken place on that massive a scale.

I should think a dwarven army would be highly decentralized and the most important role would be a file or section led by a non-commissioned officer. Perhaps the model would be taken from a mining crew rather then a Roman legion and the sergeant would simply be a foreman in another guise; if they are militia he might be a foreman in peacetime. Communication would be at a premium; perhaps they would use signal ropes to pull on in a sort of code. Musical instruments would carry far with the echoing but headquarters might not make out where it comes from. Spulunking gear would be more important then weapons. The weapons would be typical infantry weapons, the main limitation being difficulty in forming up and the negation of ranged weapons. Long pikes would be out, and the chief ranged weapons would be made for throwing. Weaponized picks would be a very likely weapon having the advantage that dwarves are used to them.
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Old 12-22-2014, 11:52 AM   #10
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Default Re: Practical underground weapons

My dwrves fight in a variety of terrain, large caverns, huge halls that are travel routes between underground cities, bridges over chasms, and mining tunnels.

So the army is divided up among several groups.
Police or Town Patrol that are lightly armoed and move fast. They tend to short swords, bucklers, nets, kusari and rope.

Slingers that use staff or regular slings with rune powered magic. The elites use Imbuements. Slings are handy as ammo is durable and easy to come by but they often have crossbow as backup and for narrow quarters. But try to attack from behind enemy lines by dropping explosive munitions. Many are also alchemist and medical trained.

Main force have heavy armor, shields, spears and axes or mace and fight in close formation with shield walls. Effective in controlled areas where they are hard to flank. Also good with Sumo for pushing or holding a wall.

Thunderers who are elite skirmishers with Kusari and hammers or mace. Weapons inspired by thunder and lightning and they also use Imbuements (Imbuement magic is a form of Rune magic for Dwarves).

Scouts have crossbows, light armor and swords and spears with axes or hammers.

Axes and hammers are tools as well as weapons and miners always have one or the other handy. The common folk having training leads to more of these in military and legal forces then might otherwise be seen.

PS: Post above reminded me about communication.
They use drums for signal and keeping time, much as oarsmen. Bugles for commands.
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Last edited by Refplace; 12-22-2014 at 11:57 AM.
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