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Old 10-15-2013, 04:31 AM   #1
vicky_molokh
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Default Gambling in 2100?

Greetings, all!

I'm wondering: I've occasionally seen the Gambling skill mentioned in THS context, but is gambling even alive in 2100? Given the ubiquitous computing, there just doesn't seem to be a way for odds of a given game not being very clearly known to anyone caring enough to play. And given VIIs and Infomorphs, there's basically no way to ensure that a player isn't resorting to card-counting for 21, or a NAI with high Perception and Body Language for something like Poker, or risk/payoff calculations for something else.

I suppose Gambling might've retreated to narrower niches, such as betting on the potential winners of various competitions.

Thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:33 AM   #2
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

Casinos can ban electronic assistance in 2100 as easily as they do now (maybe even easier with ubiquitous surveillance).
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Casinos can ban electronic assistance in 2100 as easily as they do now (maybe even easier with ubiquitous surveillance).
How? Let's say Caine the Ghost or CSAF the SAI or Kitsos the regular guy goes to a casino. Figuring whether Caine is talking to his NAI is kinda problematic without being given full read access . . . and that's a lot to demand. It's even worse with CSAF, since he's not using an AI, he is an AI, and banning someone based on AIness is grounds for serious discrimination charges (in jurisdictions where AIs are citizens). With Kitsos, the only 'softer' way to do this is to demand that he shuts down his VII . . . which seems be about as intrusive and unusual in 2100 as a strip-search in 2012.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
How? Let's say Caine the Ghost or CSAF the SAI or Kitsos the regular guy goes to a casino. Figuring whether Caine is talking to his NAI is kinda problematic without being given full read access . . . and that's a lot to demand. It's even worse with CSAF, since he's not using an AI, he is an AI, and banning someone based on AIness is grounds for serious discrimination charges (in jurisdictions where AIs are citizens). With Kitsos, the only 'softer' way to do this is to demand that he shuts down his VII . . . which seems be about as intrusive and unusual in 2100 as a strip-search in 2012.
Nevada isn't a place where AIs have citizenship. Caine can be asked to leave just like a normal card counter is now. Same thing with Kitsos really.

Also AIs have Honesty, which should keep them from cheating in casinos, and keep them from helping you cheat too.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:59 AM   #5
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

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Nevada isn't a place where AIs have citizenship. Caine can be asked to leave just like a normal card counter is now. Same thing with Kitsos really.
So it's basically a case where a huge percentage of consistently good players will be asked out almost immediately on suspicion of using such things? Seems like a business model which will cause a lot of backlash among the remaining customers, since it's hard to prove who counts/AI-counts and who doesn't.

(Also, I realise that Nevada isn't such a place, but other places are. Honesty may indeed stop AIs from using their Mathematical Ability, though I wonder if such demands are even legal. It's also interesting how it will be interpreted as applied to Sigmas.)
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:01 AM   #6
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

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So it's basically a case where a huge percentage of consistently good players will be asked out almost immediately on suspicion of using such things?
This is already true of Blackjack in casinos in 2013.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Nevada isn't a place where AIs have citizenship. Caine can be asked to leave just like a normal card counter is now. Same thing with Kitsos really.

Also AIs have Honesty, which should keep them from cheating in casinos, and keep them from helping you cheat too.
However, VIIs and other assistive technology make it much easier to learn to count cards without ongoing assistance, so blackjack may no longer be profitable enough to be offered. Games dependent on physical collisions like craps and roulette may last longer with modifications like vibrating surfaces. And Bingo and slots are already totally virtual, and totally rigged by law. :(
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

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However, VIIs and other assistive technology make it much easier to learn to count cards without ongoing assistance, so blackjack may no longer be profitable enough to be offered.
Meh, you can learn on your smartphone right now, I don't think having the screen up against your eyeball instead makes any real difference. It takes practice though, and a willingness to think like a mathematician instead of a gambler. It's also not enough to count cards, you need to master the actual strategy of the game too. Counting cards only helps you figure out how to bet and buy insurance.

You also need to be able to keep track of your running total and whats actually in front of you at the same time. You also have to count fast. Some people just can't keep numbers straight like that.

Finally all the casinos really need to do is put even more decks in the shoe and/or shuffle more often and card counting is nullified.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:09 PM   #9
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

As I understand this, GURPS Gambling skill is about playing true games of chance effectively - getting a feel for odds in general, spotting rigged games, whatever. Games with an actual skill component of any sort (e.g. Poker) each get their own mandatory specialisation of Games skill.

Where Blackjack - random to casual play, susceptible to a certain kind of skill - falls is anyone's guess, but in any event, I too suspect it's a dead game by 2100. Implants and brainbugs would just make it too easy to become a card counter. True games of chance will still be around - they're a compulsion for some people, a tax on hope for others; characters could use AI assistance to judge the odds better, but knowing the odds doesn't necessarily stop a game from being played. People play roulette, where the odds are practically printed on the table, after all.

Actually, that gives me a scenario idea... Back in the 2070s, a chain of high-end genefixing clinics announced that they'd found a set of genetic sequences correlated to compulsive gambling. A significant number of rich parents then paid to have these not occur in their offspring; after all, who wants their kids to be gambling addicts?

It was only in the '90s that various families realised that they'd produced a generation of dull heirs with severe risk aversion. Rather than pay out millions in compensation, the clinics simply commissioned creation of a brainbug that compensated for the genefix. And it's only in 2100 that the clinics have realised that supplying that brainbug free, in unlimited quatities, with few questions asked, may have been a mistake.

The PCs are hired by the clinics to talk those heirs down and off runaway brainbug addiction. These filthy rich, risk-addicted heirs...
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:45 AM   #10
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Default Re: Gambling in 2100?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Greetings, all!

I'm wondering: I've occasionally seen the Gambling skill mentioned in THS context, but is gambling even alive in 2100? Given the ubiquitous computing, there just doesn't seem to be a way for odds of a given game not being very clearly known to anyone caring enough to play. And given VIIs and Infomorphs, there's basically no way to ensure that a player isn't resorting to card-counting for 21, or a NAI with high Perception and Body Language for something like Poker, or risk/payoff calculations for something else.

I suppose Gambling might've retreated to narrower niches, such as betting on the potential winners of various competitions.

Thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
I'd imagine gambling in some context is alive and well in the setting. It seems to be pretty ingrained human tendency. It's been around practically since the beginning and I don't see it ceasing to exist in the next 100 yrs. There are probably restrictions on electronic aids like today and AI likely prohibited in some fashion. OTOH. would most AI care too baring the need for quick income? And would it be "discrimination" anymore than disallowing someone from using their cybershell in an endurance race against organic competitors? "Transhuman" adjusted laws are going to cut both ways so having an "unreasonable" advantage due t state or enhancements might be acceptable grounds from being barred from a competition or activity.
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