[Low Tech]Hoplites and early plate armour.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

You're not going to find large pieces of iron armour easily until the blast furnace becomes widespread in the (IIRC) C14 - before that you had to work with the relatively small pieces that a bloomery could produce and weld them together since you were unable to get the iron hot enough to melt.

They have been producing one-piece iron helmets since before the Roman period. Anyone who can make one of those can easily make an iron breastplate. The blooms required for both are of a similar size and the helmet requires far more skill than the breastplate. There are at least two iron cuirasses dating to the Hellenistic period. One was found at Vergina and another was found at Prodromoi. I also recall a document mentioning four iron cuirasses being given to a king as a gift. So it seems that they were only available to the wealthy and probably cost more than bronze cuirasses at the time.

Mail may have been invented (in iron) as early as 500BC (unless I'm out of date here)

Some time in the 4th C BC is most likely. A good case can be made for it being invented by a 4th C jeweller named Midias of Messene.

and presumably iron scale and lamellar designs may be even older but I don't recall those popping up in pre-Hellenistic Greece.

The earliest examples are Assyrian. During the Classical period it was definitely used by Persians and probably by Greeks as well.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Anders

What was the linothorax? Is that Heavy Cloth Armor?

The Greeks never used the term. Modern writers use it to describe Greek armour made from layered linen. The problem is that all of the Greek texts mentioning this amour are actually talking about its use by other cultures, not Greeks. There isn't a lot of evidence to suggest that Classical Greeks ever used it, though it was used in the Bronze Age. The classical version would be medium layered cloth. Pausanias said that it was better for hunting because could not stop a hard spear thrust.

[PBarone714]

Greek hopolites used their shields, so they would use their spears one-handed. See the Shield Wall perk in Martial Arts.

Originally Posted by Frost

I have been building characters for a one shot game with a pseudo-ancient greek feel and it's left me with a few questions.

First off Low Tech lists the Dory (the basic hoplite weapon) as a heavy spear so a two handed weapon. Logic, my memory and a quick Wikipedia search say it was used one handed is this a mistake? Or is there a technique I am overlooking?

The other thing is I have seen illustrations and reconstructions of bronze plate arm and leg defenses from slightly earlier eras that might work for one of my characters. Low tech implies that this would be regular plate arm and leg defenses at 4 × the regular cost again am I overlooking something?

[EDIT] Ok the big thing I am overlooking is the sheer cost. $11,200 for the full suit is probably outside the budget. I might have to settle for hardened leather on the limbs.[/EDIT]

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

Originally Posted by Varyon

What toys the colloquial 1% have access to shouldn't define TL - rather, what's widespread among most of the remainder should.

That is literally what I said; yet you are posting as if correcting me.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Varyon

What toys the colloquial 1% have access to shouldn't define TL - rather, what's widespread among most of the remainder should.

Less than 1% of the population use jet aircraft, but that doesn't mean their presence isn't relevant to defining TL. The early iron items are more examples of prototypes, which are normally permitted to slightly exceed the TL.

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Less than 1% of the population use jet aircraft,

To expand on this - passenger airplane seat rentals are (outside of quarantine situations) available to anyone of even moderately modest means who wishes to travel.

Granted, if everyone who could afford to, did rent a seat, there'd be a massive shortage; but that's largely because most people don't have a need to, most of them time; not because reaching 100% saturation is actually impossible.

To sum up, this is not the Airplane Age because most people can't afford airplanes; however, you could call it the Airplane Seat Rental Age, because most people can afford those. ;)

Should personal aircars become a thing, then we could, perhaps, call that Age the "Airplane Age". :)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad!

To expand on this - passenger airplane seat rentals are (outside of quarantine situations) available to anyone of even moderately modest means who wishes to travel.

I was thinking of combat aircraft, I admit. My general point was that it just has to be prevalent enough to materially affecting the setting, not actually common.

[Say, it isn't that bad!]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I was thinking of combat aircraft, I admit. My general point was that it just has to be prevalent enough to materially affecting the setting, not actually common.

Yeah, I agree with you on that. :)

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Anders

What was the linothorax? Is that Heavy Cloth Armor?

An anachronistic term for armour that the ancient Greeks described with a phrase that's been translated as 'linen-white' (probably meaning 'as white as linen,' in much the same way that 'the wine-dark sea' meant that the sea was as dark as wine), and may or may not have involved any linen at all in its construction (e.g it could have been leather or metal armour with a layer or two of linen in front as decoration).

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

An anachronistic term for armour that the ancient Greeks described with a phrase that's been translated as 'linen-white' (probably meaning 'as white as linen,' in much the same way that 'the wine-dark sea' meant that the sea was as dark as wine), and may or may not have involved any linen at all in its construction (e.g it could have been leather or metal armour with a layer or two of linen in front as decoration).

It has nothing to do with the colour "white". The word comes from λινόν (linón), which means "flax". These armours were made in all kinds of colours but undyed linen is grey, not white. It is possible that some linothoraxes were bleached white but there isn't much evidence to support it. Linothorax is a compound Greek word that translates as "linen armour". Classical texts use phrases such as thorakes linoi, and never compounded the words. Homer used it as an adjective - linothorex - which described someone who was "linen-armoured". He never used it as a noun but this is probably where we got the word from. Any time a related phrase is used in a text, it is definitely describing some kind of armour made from linen and not leather or any other material.