what can stop Rapid Journey if not a No Mana zone?

[Plane]

reading M82, it sounds like No Mana would stop you making the IQ roll needed to return to starting point... just like being knocked out would.

I think because either of them force you to stop maintaining the spell?

In the case of being knocked out, that might not be a problem if 'Maintain Spell' were used on Rapid Journey, but No Mana AFAIK immediately ends all maintainable spells, even if you have unused time paid for.

Maintaining the spell is required for the minutely IQ checks to return... but that IQ check is only needed if the MoS was 0-3, there's no IQ check needed for MoS 4+

In that case, it sounds like getting knocked out wouldn't matter: when 1 minute was up, your failure to pay FP would just result in automatic snapback. Failed maintenance just treats like you passed that IQ check in that scenario...

To leave FASTER than 1 minute would perhaps require paying 1 FP for early termination is what I thought at first... but it mentions that DISTRACTION can also result in this...

That's weird... was RJ maybe intended to be one of those "requires concentration" spells where you're -3 to cast other spells and all your maneuvers need to be concentrates?

If not then why would a distraction roll end your maintenance? That's not normal for the -1 spells... It's usually just unconsciousness, not distraction, which stops those...

If that's the case then maybe you can just "voluntarily get distracted" to immediately snap back without paying 1 FP for premature spell termination?

No Mana presumably would have the same result as getting knocked out (can't maintain spell) but I think you would "snap back" for MoS4+ since there's no IQ roll needed.

If that's the case then Static (Magic) or Neutralize (Magic) would not be able to "anchor" someone using Rapid Journey to prevent them from escaping.

So what sort of ability SHOULD be able to prevent the "snap back"?

M170 "Teleport Shield" is one thing that comes to mind, but all this does is penalize skill rolls, and there is no actual skill roll to "snap back" if your MoS was 4+ so it sounds like if TS would be at all useful against Rapid Journey it would only be against MoS of 0-3 to penalize the IQ roll.

To allow some kind of intereference, I was wondering if maybe we should always require an IQ roll to return, but maybe a huge bonus like +10 in the situation where "it should always work" is the standard policy (MoS4) ?

You could even treat this like 'No Roll Required' but NRR still requires an effective skill of at least 3 to succeed, so penalties can actually stop those from working.

I don't know if there's any magic countermeasure possible except Teleport Shield. Can anyone thing of any advantages/powers that could prevent the snapback?

I'm normally in huge favor of soft caps like Teleport Shield but soft caps don't work if there's no actual roll to penalize.

[Taneli]

Hmm, I don't allow teleporting into a no-mana zone in the first place, and would rule that if the caster walks into one while maintaining the spell, the spell is automatically dispelled and the caster is stranded there.

[Anthony]

It appears that rapid journey is normally automatic snap-back on the effect ending. That possibly includes things like counterspell and dispel magic, though it's explicit that Teleport Shield can stop them. If the spellcasting roll was made by 3 or less, any effect that ends the spell will prevent the snap-back.

Entering a no mana zone normally causes a spell to be suspended; if it ended while in a no mana zone, you would not snap back. If it ends in a place where snap back is an impossible teleport path (say, normal mana zone embedded in a no mana zone, or you walked through a planar portal) I would also say it fails, but as long as you are in a valid location at the time the spell ends you should snap back.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Taneli

Hmm, I don't allow teleporting into a no-mana zone in the first place, and would rule that if the caster walks into one while maintaining the spell, the spell is automatically dispelled and the caster is stranded there.

There's some discussion somewhee about allowing a planar shift into a NMZ but you're stuck after that.

All of the OP's concerns about mnaintaninable spells and IQ rolls are irrelevant. Magic (the system Rapid Journey belongs to anyway) doesn't work in an NMZ. Even if it can one way dump you into an NMZ all magical effects are suspended or ended once you're there. You'll have to walk out if you can.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

All of the OP's concerns about mnaintaninable spells and IQ rolls are irrelevant. Magic (the system Rapid Journey belongs to anyway) doesn't work in an NMZ. Even if it can one way dump you into an NMZ all magical effects are suspended or ended once you're there. You'll have to walk out if you can.

It only mentions being stranded in the low-MoS situation though, not the high-MoS situation.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Plane

It only mentions being stranded in the low-MoS situation though, not the high-MoS situation.

Margin of Success doesn't matter if you are in No Mana.

[Anaraxes]

The MoS bit provides a chance of the normally automatic return failing, just so the spell isn't 100% reliable. It doesn't have anything to do with other failure conditions.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

The MoS bit provides a chance of the normally automatic return failing, just so the spell isn't 100% reliable.
It doesn't have anything to do with other failure conditions.

If the effect of the spell ending (failure to maintain) is to snap you back, then wouldn't No Mana ending the spell do that?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Plane

If the effect of the spell ending (failure to maintain) is to snap you back, then wouldn't No Mana ending the spell do that?

(a) a no mana zone doesn't end spells, it suspends them, and (b) no, because you'd be inside the no mana zone and therefore the spell has no effect.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Plane

If the effect of the spell ending (failure to maintain) is to snap you back, then wouldn't No Mana ending the spell do that?

No, because it's a No Mana zone, and spells don't work there. To me, at least, that's clearly a higher-order effect than the details of operation of one particular spell.

How exactly the return operates, and whether or not the MoS matters in the return part of the spell operation, assumes the spell is even _trying_ to operate. The NMZ prevents that from even being a relevant question. Spells aren't working, whether correctly or incorrectly.

As others have said, an NMZ doesn't "end" spells, but the point doesn't turn on that fine legal wording. You just can't logically build a spell trigger that does anything on the condition "after you enter an NMZ".

If you like, you can decide that in your setting, NMZs are surrounded by a zone of some additional distance where mana is weakening, or failing, or whatever, and decide that that's detectable. And then decide that mages in your setting made their Get Out of Mundane Dodge spell trigger when it detects its inside one of these fringes of an NMZ. That is, the condition is effectively "near an NMZ" rather than "in an NMZ". Maybe throw a "Sense NMZ" Information spell into the pile. And then rule that the MoS business in the RAW text is actually due to the effects of that fringe, so if your spell isn't really solidly constructed, it could fail under these conditions for that metaphysical reason. That's all very colorful and fun. But it's not RAW, which simply doesn't go into much metaphysical detail. ("Generic Universal", so they try not to dictate more than they have to about the settings the rules can be used in.)