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Old 11-10-2020, 01:15 PM   #21
Kieddicus
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default Re: Missile weapons skill for wizards

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Ah.

Of course, that was the original way TFT IQ increases worked. Having played with that system for years and years, I don't see it as broken.

Quite the opposite, I see the new system as very broken, as I've mentioned repeatedly.
Even though the game is notably older than me I actually grew up playing it, as it was my Father's RPG of choice. And I too find the older system works much better in this regard. Though both my Father and I find the game works best when you use both.
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Old 11-10-2020, 07:08 PM   #22
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Missile weapons skill for wizards

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Originally Posted by Kieddicus View Post
Wait?! Adding IQ after character creation doesn't give more memory-points? That is really weird (and a little stupid) though after reading the rules it does seem to imply that...
That was a change made for Legacy Edition, and it's easy to miss the (one?) line that mentions it. It should have come with fanfare and bold caps because (IMHO) it may really be the largest difference between the original and the Legacy rules, and feels jarringly inconsistent with the rest of the system. I could call this my least-favorite change.
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Old 11-11-2020, 01:41 AM   #23
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Missile weapons skill for wizards

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Originally Posted by Kieddicus View Post
Even though the game is notably older than me I actually grew up playing it, as it was my Father's RPG of choice. And I too find the older system works much better in this regard. Though both my Father and I find the game works best when you use both.
I agree with using both -- otherwise IQ is weak sauce for non-wizards. I.e. I know there's an inconsistency, XP total-wise but increasing IQ SHOULD give you a talent point. I don't think it's "double-dipping".
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Old 11-11-2020, 04:24 AM   #24
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Missile weapons skill for wizards

Fixed-cost Talent Points strike me as a gamey sort of "tax shelter" for high-attribute figures (while punishing low-attribute characters too), and just knocks the whole XP structure out of whack. I'm very uncomfortable with two figures having the same earned attribute point totals, but extremely different XP histories. I can see why SJ would call it "double dipping" to allow gaining talents both ways though -- that makes it go from messy to even messier. "Memory" via the Legacy talent rules has surreptitiously become a 4th attribute, but without following the same rules as the other attributes, while all the while the XP system is still calibrated for only 3 attributes. The real fix to my mind is just to drop the new way altogether, and only earn additional talents by increasing IQ.

That was never a great system though either. But an easier way to fix the older system would be to get rid of the differential costs for talents between non-wizards and wizards completely, which simplifies rather than complicates things, and lower the cost of attribute increases so everyone could afford higher IQ (and therefore more talents) that wanted to. About the only thing that would break is the system for disbelieving illusions, which becomes too easy with a lot of high IQ figures running about -- so tweak that rather than all these other changes Legacy introduced. Disbelief could be a contest of IQs, or there could be an additional "stronger" illusion spell that requires a 4d6 roll to disbelieve, or other easy fixes.

That, or just make "Memory Capacity" into an honest 4th attribute that costs as much to increase as the other attributes -- but that would kinda be overkill.
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Old 11-11-2020, 01:51 PM   #25
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Missile weapons skill for wizards

Well Legacy already has de facto talent points. It's just the total points you have in talents. It's just determined by whatever your IQ started as, plus those you bought later at 500 XP each.

The tricky part of house-ruling an alternative is figuring out what system(s) to use to relate IQ to talent points (if any) and what relative cost there is between attributes and talent points (if any).
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Old 11-18-2020, 12:16 AM   #26
Anomylous
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Missile weapons skill for wizards

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Originally Posted by Kieddicus View Post
Even though the game is notably older than me I actually grew up playing it, as it was my Father's RPG of choice. And I too find the older system works much better in this regard. Though both my Father and I find the game works best when you use both.
O hai fellow 2nd generation TFTer!

Yeah I'm not totally sure how to handle this, either. My observation is that most starting characters look to boost DX first, but I also want to make it easy for lower-"level" characters to learn new talents/spells, because gaining new capabilities is fun.

Maybe this would go better in the House Rules forum, but I propose the following tweaks to Legacy Edition, as a compromise:

Spoiler:  

EDIT - never mind, I thought of another, simpler option: Buy "Skill Points" at whatever you're currently paying for attribute points, and trade them for spells and talents. Skill Points don't count against your attribute total. I'd still say you can't have more skills than your IQ.

Last edited by Anomylous; 11-18-2020 at 12:26 AM.
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