Volume Effect

[Daigoro]

If Area Effect areas are 12' high across the radius of the area, how would you price an enhancement which has a radius in all dimensions?

[vicky_molokh]

+50% at most.

[transmetahuman]

I don't see anything in Basic that would lead me to believe the Area Effect enhancement works like Area spells - AFAIK, AE advantages already affect a spherical area. If I'm wrong, I'd still only call it a +0% difference to make it spherical, assuming the effect doesn't "spread" to larger distances when blocked like the old AD&D Fireball spell.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

If Area Effect areas are 12' high across the radius of the area, how would you price an enhancement which has a radius in all dimensions?

If they are (which isn't clear), I can see a case for it deducting 50% from the cost of Area Effect of 2 yards, 25% from cost at 4 yards, having no effect at 8 yards, and adding 25% per level to the cost of Area Effect beyond that.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

I don't see anything in Basic that would lead me to believe the Area Effect enhancement works like Area spells - AFAIK, AE advantages already affect a spherical area. If I'm wrong, I'd still only call it a +0% difference to make it spherical, assuming the effect doesn't "spread" to larger distances when blocked like the old AD&D Fireball spell.

The call-out box on B101 says "area is a circle 2 yds in radius (and 12' high...)". A hemisphere would be 6 feet high.

I'd always presumed a spherical shape, but a conversation at tonight's game brought this point up. The question was whether Swarm (Powers p53) could extend to its 1/2 mile radius vertically into a hemisphere as is, or if Flight was needed to get the vertical movement. We decided that a Swarm defined as flying insects, but without the PC having the Flight advantage, would fill a man-height cloud out to the perimeter, in a jelly donut shape.

Does that make sense?

As the volume of Volume Effect would be greater than an equivalent radius Area Effect, with a greater height, it should be more than a 0% enhancement.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

As the volume of Volume Effect would be greater than an equivalent radius Area Effect, with a greater height, it should be more than a 0% enhancement.

Actually, at the first several yards of radius, the volume of a Volume Effect is less than the volume of an Area Effect that effects an area 12' (4 yards) in height across the entire area.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

The call-out box on B101 says "area is a circle 2 yds in radius (and 12' high...)". A hemisphere would be 6 feet high.

I'd always presumed a spherical shape, but a conversation at tonight's game brought this point up. The question was whether Swarm (Powers p53) could extend to its 1/2 mile radius vertically into a hemisphere as is, or if Flight was needed to get the vertical movement. We decided that a Swarm defined as flying insects, but without the PC having the Flight advantage, would fill a man-height cloud out to the perimeter, in a jelly donut shape.

I think that Area Effect's shape depends on the nature of the effect... clouds, falls, and the like would usually be cylinders; explosive-like effects would be spherical. Possibly, the shape might be left to the creator to decide at the time of the abilities definition. Cylinders start off affecting a wider area but spheres will outpace them as levels of AE are added. You might want to check with Kromm to get an official ruling.

Regarding Swarm: Note that that trait already has a form of Flight, due to its connection with Insubstantiality.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by cmdicely

Actually, at the first several yards of radius, the volume of a Volume Effect is less than the volume of an Area Effect that effects an area 12' (4 yards) in height across the entire area.

Mathematically this is of course true, but I presume Area Effect was given this kind of description as an approximation to avoid bothersome calculations of spherical perimeters during gametime.

I guess Volume Effect would actually be described as a cylinder of a height equal to its diameter for similar simplicity when using a hex-grid, although there might be other cases where knowing the linear range to the centre of the effect might be easier.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Regarding Swarm: Note that that trait already has a form of Flight, due to its connection with Insubstantiality.

We considered that, but it first says "with appropriate Move," then later says "in other respects treat this as Insubstantiability." We read that to mean that you don't get the movement aspect of Insubstantial.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

We considered that, but it first says "with appropriate Move," then later says "in other respects treat this as Insubstantiability." We read that to mean that you don't get the movement aspect of Insubstantial.

Kromm clarified this in a PM to Der Wanderer, who relayed it in the thread Injury Tolerance (Diffuse, Swarm), here. Flight is supposed to be the default assumption for Swarm... crawlers and other land-bound hordes should take a limitation.