Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > The Gnomes of Zurich > The Industry

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-23-2015, 04:59 PM   #1
Teclis
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Default Local Stores Don't Carry GURPS any more

At the local store where I'm recently started running a 3rd edition Cyberpunk/ Robots/Car Wars campaign I have a group of eager and enthusiastic teenaged players who have whole hardheadedly taken up the game.

As, unfortunately GURPS 3rd edition has been out of print for some time, the only place some one can purchase it is through Warehouse 23. If someone were to inquire at any of the local gaming store or comic book shops about purchasing GURPS or any GURPS material they would be disappointed.

What do people think of the idea of SJ Games providing some form of monitory incentive for local gaming stores to promote esales of GURPS from Warehouse 23? Maybe SJ Games could put web kiosks in stores and people can buy GURPS material directly from Warehouse 23 via the kiosk and the local retailer hosting the kiosk could get a percentage. The kiosk could download the books directly onto a USB key for the purchaser or even print it full color using a off the self laser printer.
Teclis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2015, 07:33 PM   #2
Sindri
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Default Re: Local Stores Don't Carry GURPS any more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teclis View Post
As, unfortunately GURPS 3rd edition has been out of print for some time, the only place some one can purchase it is through Warehouse 23. If someone were to inquire at any of the local gaming store or comic book shops about purchasing GURPS or any GURPS material they would be disappointed.
There's a big difference between local stores no longer carrying GURPS books and local stores no longer carrying GURPS books for an obsolete edition. It's not reasonable to expect local stores to be a reliable source of a previous edition's books.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teclis View Post
What do people think of the idea of SJ Games providing some form of monitory incentive for local gaming stores to promote esales of GURPS from Warehouse 23? Maybe SJ Games could put web kiosks in stores and people can buy GURPS material directly from Warehouse 23 via the kiosk and the local retailer hosting the kiosk could get a percentage. The kiosk could download the books directly onto a USB key for the purchaser or even print it full color using a off the self laser printer.
I think it's ridiculous. First of all I think you're vastly overestimating the amount of funds SJ Games has to throw at random projects. Putting web kiosks (possibly containing colour-POD capability!) is not only something they couldn't justify for GURPS's profitability (even if they could invest that kind of money in GURPS, there are way more useful things to put it into. Like more GURPS books.) it doesn't really do anything useful. If you want a PDF just download it at home or from a mobile device, you don't need a web kiosk for that. Unless you need a physical book immediately it would be better to get a book made at a print shop or order it POD from SJ Games since it would be cheaper to finally set up a POD service than a bunch of web kiosks. Finally after investing all that money in dubiously useful web kiosks the last thing SJ Games would want is to make less money from the purchases.
Sindri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2015, 07:49 PM   #3
Turhan's Bey Company
Aluminated
 
Turhan's Bey Company's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East of the moon, west of the stars, close to buses and shopping
Default Re: Local Stores Don't Carry GURPS any more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
There's a big difference between local stores no longer carrying GURPS books and local stores no longer carrying GURPS books for an obsolete edition. It's not reasonable to expect local stores to be a reliable source of a previous edition's books.
His point is that 3rd edition was the last time game stores could carry lots of GURPS, because that was when it was all physical products, not that they should be expected to carry 3rd edition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
First of all I think you're vastly overestimating the amount of funds SJ Games has to throw at random projects.
I believe the current marketing budget is two bucks and a week-old cheese sandwich, and I'm not sure about the two bucks.
__________________
I've been making pointlessly shiny things, and I've got some gaming-related stuff as well as 3d printing designs.

Buy my Warehouse 23 stuff, dammit!
Turhan's Bey Company is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2015, 08:29 PM   #4
Andrew Hackard
Munchkin Line Editor
 
Andrew Hackard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Local Stores Don't Carry GURPS any more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
Unless you need a physical book immediately it would be better to get a book made at a print shop or order it POD from SJ Games since it would be cheaper to finally set up a POD service than a bunch of web kiosks.
Consider that after several YEARS of looking into setting up a POD operation, we decided the money would be better spent converting the designated POD space into offices and hiring more staff. If we aren't going to be doing POD ourselves, we certainly aren't going to be underwriting stores' own POD operations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
I believe the current marketing budget is two bucks and a week-old cheese sandwich, and I'm not sure about the two bucks.
The marketing budget is pretty healthy, actually, but we have to spend it where we're most likely to see a return. Right now, that's card, dice, and board games. From our research, most gamers today aren't looking for new generic RPGs to try -- either they already have their favorite games that they play, they're looking to play the official licensed RPG for their favorite setting, or they just aren't interesting in roleplaying at all.
__________________
Andrew Hackard, Munchkin Line Editor
If you have a question that isn't getting answered, we have a thread for that.

Let people like what they like. Don't be a gamer hater.

#PlayMunchkin on social media: Twitter || Facebook || Instagram || YouTube
Follow us on Kickstarter: Steve Jackson Games and Warehouse 23
Andrew Hackard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2015, 12:02 PM   #5
philreed
I do stuff and things.
 
philreed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Local Stores Don't Carry GURPS any more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard View Post
. . . or they just aren't interesting in roleplaying at all.
The size of the RPG section in most game stores supports this.
philreed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2015, 01:14 PM   #6
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
Default Re: Local Stores Don't Carry GURPS any more

Quote:
Originally Posted by philreed View Post
The size of the RPG section in most game stores supports this.
Eh, in my high-school group I do not think that the majority of the group bought any books in ten years. Once they had what books they needed to play a couple of systems which they enjoyed, why spend the money? Another bought a certain number and pirated a certain number, and another spent most of his resources on miniatures wargames. One of the most popular systems was 1e AD&D with a DMG with the papers coming loose and some creaky PHBs. I bought things by some of the smaller gaming companies fairly often, but I never played most of it.

I do not think that sales of paper books in game stores correlate to what happens around the spare table on Friday and Saturday nights. Sad for people in the RPG industry, but probably one reason why SJG makes more money from card and board games than from books.
__________________
"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper

This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature
Polydamas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2019, 02:22 PM   #7
Teclis
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Default Re: Local Stores Don't Carry GURPS any more

It seems like the entire market for RPGs has changed. When I first started playing GUPRS in the 1980s RPGs where mostly sold in specialized hobby stores. The same stores also carried things like model rockets, trains, and hobby electronics--products that usually had a 12+ label on them. There were learning specialists in the pubic schools that were pushing D&D for "gifted" kids that had trouble socializing (in grade two I got a copy of the Awful Green Things from Outer Space and Starship Traveler from the learning specialist in my school), but for the most part children did not play RPGs.

Now the primary market for RPGs is children--case and point D&D is owned by a toy company. Most of the stores that carry RPGs are toy stores--stores that carry products intended for the under 12 age group, so consequently in order to compete in this market products have to be designed with different level of complexity and shorter game time as a result they no longer have any appeal for the demographic to which they initially held interest.

I don't know what the demographic to which table top RPGs initially appealed does now with their free time, but I wish I new as I have been trying unsuccessfully for three years to get a group together to play an ongoing GURPS campaign. Most professionals seem to be over whelmed with domestic responsibility and if you want to play RPGs you are regarded as a "looser" regardless of professional and educational achievement.

Maybe to target price point needs to be changed. I payed $1500 to go to a resort in Cuba for a week. I was board out of my mind as there wasn't a lot to do other than watch over weight Europeans sitting around drinking and smoking. I would certainly be willing to pay the same amount of money to go some where and run Harkwood for a week with the right group of players.
Teclis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2019, 04:16 PM   #8
Kale
 
Kale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cowtown, Canada
Default Re: Local Stores Don't Carry GURPS any more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teclis View Post
Maybe to target price point needs to be changed. I payed $1500 to go to a resort in Cuba for a week. I was board out of my mind as there wasn't a lot to do other than watch over weight Europeans sitting around drinking and smoking. I would certainly be willing to pay the same amount of money to go some where and run Harkwood for a week with the right group of players.
Gaming cruises are a thing. Seriously considering it when my little guy is a bit older.
__________________
FYI: Laser burns HURT!
Kale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2019, 09:43 AM   #9
lordabdul
 
lordabdul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Default Re: Local Stores Don't Carry GURPS any more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teclis View Post
Now the primary market for RPGs is children--case and point D&D is owned by a toy company. Most of the stores that carry RPGs are toy stores--stores that carry products intended for the under 12 age group, so consequently in order to compete in this market products have to be designed with different level of complexity and shorter game time as a result they no longer have any appeal for the demographic to which they initially held interest.
I don't know about that. Maybe in places where there's no specialty store anymore? But over here, RPGs are still sold in gaming stores. The evolution I see, however, is that there's been an explosion in the popularity of board games. And we're not talking about 12-and-under games here: while there are children-friendly games, there are also games like Cards Against Humanity and Joking Hazard, walls of Funko Pop figurines, Magic card packs for all ages, etc. The way I see it, it's the crazy amount of new board games being released all the time that have eaten at the rest. RPGs are effectively fighting for shelf space against board games (for all ages, some for adults only). And that means a lot of those books have fallen off the inventory -- it's not just GURPS, but it can also be Call of Cthulhu or FATE or whatever. I saw a couple specialty gaming stores that only carried DnD and maybe 2 books of Pathfinder.
lordabdul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2019, 10:16 AM   #10
RogerBW
 
RogerBW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: near London, UK
Default Re: Local Stores Don't Carry GURPS any more

I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember Kromm saying something along the lines of:

90% of the RPG market is D&D.
Of what's left, 90% is other dungeon bashing games (Pathfinder etc.).
The remaining 1% is everything else. World of Darkness, Call of Cthulhu… and GURPS.

I would also add: the copy of GURPS or Munchkin I buy from the shop is the same as the copy I buy from Warehouse 23 or Amazon. Amazon can get away with exploiting desperate workers; Warehouse 23 probably doesn't need as many employees as an in-person shop shifting that much product would. How can an RPG/boardgame shop survive when it has to charge more for the same thing?
  • Sell other things too (cards for popular CCGs, comics, whatever)
  • Have knowledgeable staff who can give advice about what you might want to buy
  • Focus on instant-gratification products where people will buy them now rather than price-comparing and waiting for delivery
RogerBW is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.