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Old 08-27-2018, 12:02 AM   #1
Lameth
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Withstanding Car Hit Super effect

I typical comic book feat of a truck running down the road and a super steps out and take the hit, head on. When he does the super maybe slides back a little [for a effect], as we digs into the ground, and the front of the truck is shattered, as well as the driver odds are. Like hitting a unmoving tree.
  • If this effect based on ST or DR of the super? or Both? I imagine both. ST to withstand the knockback, and DR to withstand the damage. correct?
  • Or maybe the effect of right before being hit, the super slams the hood with his hands to cease the car moving. Crippling the car. What damage would be needed to cease the moving of a car, to basically "kill it"?
  • And if this was Tk instead, how much DR [TK shield] would you need to cease the truck at 60 miles an hour from going forward and slam into a TK wall? Or perhaps instead just "grab" the truck instead?


thanks!!!
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Old 08-27-2018, 06:38 AM   #2
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Withstanding Car Hit Super effect

I'd just call it a slam. The brick is soaking the slam damage his takes with his DR.

As the forum likes to say, the slam rules are a little wonky, so you might want to tweak them. For instance, if the super is just an immovable object and has low HP for some reason, you might just calculate the damage from the vehicle using its own HP against it. All that front-end-crumpling energy is coming from the vehicle, after all.

Again sticking with the RAW, if you want to punch a vehicle hard enough to stop it, then see the Knockback rules. Subtract the Knockback from the vehicle's move. One yard per second is 2 mph, and 8 points of damage is one hex of Knockback, so stopping a 30 mph truck is going to call for 120 points of basic damage.

Not that the truck is going to survive such a punch anyway. But then, if you're expecting the RAW to be (a) a perfect simulation of Newtonian mechanics while also expecting (b) four-color superhero stunt cliches to be covered by actual laws of physics, then there's really not much point in worrying about how "realistic" the RAW results actually are. If you want Supes to stand in front of cars to stop them, then just say he can do that. If you like tinkering with mechanics, feel free to adjust the equations to get the results you want given your character build that "should" be able to do such a thing. Or just take the RAW as it is (acknowledged imperfections and all) and just work that backward to figure out much much ST / DR / HP you need to do the job.

Last edited by Anaraxes; 08-27-2018 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 08-27-2018, 07:10 AM   #3
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: Withstanding Car Hit Super effect

Super ST can be used to resist knockback, so long as you have time to brace for impact. You'll still need either DR or IT:DR to shrug off injury, though.
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:15 PM   #4
Mark Skarr
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Default Re: Withstanding Car Hit Super effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Again sticking with the RAW, if you want to punch a vehicle hard enough to stop it, then see the Knockback rules. Subtract the Knockback from the vehicle's move. One yard per second is 2 mph, and 8 points of damage is one hex of Knockback, so stopping a 30 mph truck is going to call for 120 points of basic damage.
It's actually worse than that. Knockback (Campaigns, pg 378, text box) is determined by the target's ST, the amount of damage is ST-2, so for a ST 10 man, 8 points is 1 hex of knockback, but for a TL7 Pickup truck (Campaigns, pg 464), with a ST of 55, it's 53 points of damage for 1 hex of knockback.

If a ST 55 pickup truck is driving at highway speeds, say move 33 (66 mph), it will slam a super for 18d damage.

Now, Pink, with her ST of 735 isn't even going to notice the knockback from the 63 average points of damage the truck will inflict. Nor will any super with a ST of 66 or higher.

If Gold & Appel, Inc had made the truck, it would have Sumo Wrestling at DX+2 or higher, and would inflict 18d+36, or 28d+1. That's 99 points of damage (on average), and would require a ST of 102 to ignore the knockback.

If, instead, we co-opt the slam rules from Dungeon Fantasy, the ST 55 truck, moving 33, would inflict 18d-2 against the super, and our numbers fall in alignment (close enough) with the numbers above.

As for stopping the truck, as the vehicle didn't inflict enough damage to move the super a single hex, I would rule that it stopped. Comic book physics and all of that.

I would also allow the Super to punch the truck as it hit (assuming they took a wait maneuver), and add that damage to their slam damage to determine if they or the vehicle needs to fall down. If the vehicle falls down, I would call that a stall out, regardless if the damage was enough to disable it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lameth View Post
  • If this effect based on ST or DR of the super? or Both? I imagine both. ST to withstand the knockback, and DR to withstand the damage. correct?
Both, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lameth View Post
  • Or maybe the effect of right before being hit, the super slams the hood with his hands to cease the car moving. Crippling the car. What damage would be needed to cease the moving of a car, to basically "kill it"?
Take the vehicle to HP -1, and it has to make HT checks to "stay conscious" (functional). For a pickup truck with DR 5, that would be 61 points of damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lameth View Post
  • And if this was Tk instead, how much DR [TK shield] would you need to cease the truck at 60 miles an hour from going forward and slam into a TK wall? Or perhaps instead just "grab" the truck instead?
Well, the average damage for a truck going 60, as opposed to 66 would be 56 points of damage. So, that much DR. I would say you'd need enough TK to lift the truck (with an Lwt. of 2.2) off the ground. That could be accomplished with a TK of 61 for Heavy Encumbrance (back-of-the-envelope calculations, could be off).

Last edited by Mark Skarr; 08-27-2018 at 01:25 PM. Reason: Left out the other answers . . ..
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:41 PM   #5
NineDaysDead
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Default Re: Withstanding Car Hit Super effect

Immunity to Knockback [10]

Last edited by NineDaysDead; 08-27-2018 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:46 PM   #6
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Withstanding Car Hit Super effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Skarr View Post
Knockback is determined by the target's ST
Good point. I just have the magic 8-number stuck in my head. That helps out our super, though the Immunity to Knockback might be a good thing for bricks to have in any event.
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Old 08-27-2018, 03:31 PM   #7
Mark Skarr
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Default Re: Withstanding Car Hit Super effect

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Immunity to Knockback [15]
I've never been a fan of the "Immunity to X" as an answer to something that is caused by damage inflicted. And, I would go so far as to say that "Resistant to Knockback (Immunity)" is a deliberate abuse of the rule, as Resistant says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Characters, pg 80
You are naturally resistant (or even immune) to noxious items or substances that are not direct, physical attacks.
You get a bonus to HT rolls from Resistant, but you don't actually make any resistance rolls against knockback. And, the rolls you make aren't HT based, they're DX based to avoid falling.

If you're a brick super, you should be spending points on ST. And ST is how you soak knockback.

I'd really like to see LogST get a new lease on life as a Power-Ups book to help Bricks with their point inequity among the super types.
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:32 PM   #8
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Default Re: Withstanding Car Hit Super effect

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Originally Posted by Mark Skarr View Post
I've never been a fan of the "Immunity to X" as an answer to something that is caused by damage inflicted. And, I would go so far as to say that "Resistant to Knockback (Immunity)" is a deliberate abuse of the rule, as Resistant says:



You get a bonus to HT rolls from Resistant, but you don't actually make any resistance rolls against knockback. And, the rolls you make aren't HT based, they're DX based to avoid falling.
Immunity to Knockback is Canonical. See Chinese elemental powers page 28. But I mistyped, it's 10 points.
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Old 08-28-2018, 11:47 AM   #9
khorboth
 
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Default Re: Withstanding Car Hit Super effect

The houserules I have used for supers have always included a global double knockback effect: Normal attacks get double knockback and attacks which don't normally cause knockback cause normal knockback. I also simplify the knockback rules because they come up so much. Each character gets a "knockback threshold" based on their HP (4 is average) and every increment of that much damage produces 1 hex of knockback. "mooks" automatically make the roll to stay on their feet at 1 hex of knockback and fail otherwise.

To offset this, I allow an "Increased density" leveled advantage. It costs 1 point per level and each level reduces knockback on every attack by 1 hex. Starting weight is multiplied by increased density level. There is a special +50% modifier available which allows the knockback decrease without the increased weight.

In practice, at high power levels, most heroes take a few levels. Civilians go flying when hit hard. A bricks can quickly take a car hit, but not necessarily a truck. I have found that it really helps the world feel like a slightly silly comic book. (If that's not the feel you want, modify to suit your needs)
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