How to balance Super ST vs Super Lifting+Striking ST

[awesomenessofme1]

I've discovered something I really don't like. If you apply a significant number of modifiers to ST with Super-Effort, it actually becomes cheaper than individually buying Lifting and Striking ST with Super-Effort, despite being strictly superior (including HP). Here's the breakdown of my example:

Version 1: ST+10 (Super-Effort, +300%; Breakable, DR15, Machine, SM0, -40%; Can Be Stolen (Must be forcefully removed), -10%; Superscience, -10%) [340]

Version 2: Lifting ST+10 (Same modifiers, but with Super-Effort costing +400%) [132] + Striking ST+10 (Same modifiers as Lifting ST) [220], for a total cost of [352]. Adding in HP+10 with the gadget and power modifiers makes it an even [360]

This doesn't really make sense, but normally I'd just ignore it and go with the cheaper version. However, this is a suit of armor, it shouldn't give additional HP. If I sell back the HP (even with the modifiers), the balance gets even more lopsided, but if I use Version 2, I feel like I'm just hamstringing the character.

Does anyone have thoughts, either about my example specifically or the issue in general?

[Thamior]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

I've discovered something I really don't like. If you apply a significant number of modifiers to ST with Super-Effort, it actually becomes cheaper than individually buying Lifting and Striking ST with Super-Effort, despite being strictly superior (including HP). Here's the breakdown of my example:

Version 1: ST+10 (Super-Effort, +300%; Breakable, DR15, Machine, SM0, -40%; Can Be Stolen (Must be forcefully removed), -10%; Superscience, -10%) [340]

Version 2: Lifting ST+10 (Same modifiers, but with Super-Effort costing +400%) [132] + Striking ST+10 (Same modifiers as Lifting ST) [220], for a total cost of [352]. Adding in HP+10 with the gadget and power modifiers makes it an even [360]

This doesn't really make sense, but normally I'd just ignore it and go with the cheaper version. However, this is a suit of armor, it shouldn't give additional HP. If I sell back the HP (even with the modifiers), the balance gets even more lopsided, but if I use Version 2, I feel like I'm just hamstringing the character.

Does anyone have thoughts, either about my example specifically or the issue in general?

Super-effort doesn't include HP, AFAIK.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Thamior

Super-effort doesn't include HP, AFAIK.

In this case, we're looking at Super ST +10/+100, as described in GURPS Supers. The +10 part does in fact add to HP as it's a boost to the regular ST; the +100 from Super-Effort does not add to HP.

Clear as mud?

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

In this case, we're looking at Super ST +10/+100, as described in GURPS Supers. The +10 part does in fact add to HP as it's a boost to the regular ST; the +100 from Super-Effort does not add to HP.

Clear as mud?

Yes, what I was saying was that in the example with base ST, you're getting all the benefits of the others, and 10 HP, for a cheaper price.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

Yes, what I was saying was that in the example with base ST, you're getting all the benefits of the others, and 10 HP, for a cheaper price.

I'm aware. I was replying to Thamior who was wondering why you were adding HP.

Now, Supers gives an "Under the Hood" look for Super ST.

Originally Posted by Supers p. 24

In GURPS Powers, Super-Effort only applies to Lifting ST. To buy +1 to ST, but be capable of SuperEffort, you have to buy Lifting ST, Striking ST, and HP separately and apply the modifier to Lifting ST. A +1 to Lifting ST costs 3 points; with the +400% Super-Effort modifier, that increases to 15 points. In four-color and ultraviolent campaigns, Super-Effort also affects Striking ST; applying the same +400% bonus raises the cost of +1 to Striking ST from 5 points to 25 points. Super-Effort does not affect HP; to gain the ability to withstand massive damage, take Injury Tolerance (Damage Reduction) as discussed on pp. 118-119 of GURPS Powers. So +1 HP still costs 2 points.

Putting the three back together, +1 ST with Super-Effort costs 15 + 25 + 2 = 42 points, as opposed to 10 points without Super-Effort. That’s a +320% increase. To make the calculations simpler, this is rounded down to +300%. That is, each level of super-strength costs 40 points.

In short, the price difference is likely that rounding error between the calculated +320% and the +300% that whswhs (and Kromm during editing) decided on to make things easier.

[kirbwarrior]

Considering the first option is simpler, I'd just go with that and buy down HP, then maybe invest into some DR or damage divisors to not be so glass cannon, both of which will enjoy being cheapened with those limitations. The reason I say this is because of how Super Effort was 'built' onto strength (check Supers, I believe it talks about why it came to that price).

EDIT: Phantasm explained the box already ;)