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Old 06-30-2015, 09:47 AM   #1101
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
(I'm wholly convinced Emma Frost is the reason Cyke turned to the jerk side.)
Dude abandoned his pregnant wife in seconds when his ex-girlfriend showed back up from the dead. Jerk-dom is an essential part of his character.
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:53 AM   #1102
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Dude abandoned his pregnant wife in seconds when his ex-girlfriend showed back up from the dead. Jerk-dom is an essential part of his character.
Plus in the early 90s, even though he an Jean Grey were in a relationship (and a few real world years later, married) he was far from discouraging Betsy Braddock's flirtations (if not outright advances).
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Old 06-30-2015, 04:10 PM   #1103
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Plus in the early 90s, even though he an Jean Grey were in a relationship (and a few real world years later, married) he was far from discouraging Betsy Braddock's flirtations (if not outright advances).
I admit the guy is not perfect, especially when it comes to relationships. However, when I said "turned to the jerk side", I'm referencing fairly recent events, most notably Schism and AvX.

Magneto has said several times that Scott is "sounding a lot like me". Also, in the post-Schism relaunch of Uncanny X-Men, Storm says, quite seriously, "Raise your hand if you have not spent time in a supervillain phase. Scott, are you sure you should have your hand up?"

Cyke's more of a full-on villain nowadays than a hero, and the descent to this can be traced back to when he started cheating on Jean with Emma, which is why I ICly blame the White Queen for it.
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Old 07-01-2015, 10:18 AM   #1104
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Cyke's more of a full-on villain nowadays than a hero, and the descent to this can be traced back to when he started cheating on Jean with Emma, which is why I ICly blame the White Queen for it.
Scott abandoned his pregnant wife; that isn't super-villainy, but it is definitely regular villainy, the kind you don't have to be rich and/or powerful to inflict. That it was glossed over probably made it worse and not better; I didn't even know he had done that until about halfway through my time as an X-Men fanboy, since by then someone had loaned me some TPBs so that I could catch-up on what I'd basically just missed by a few years.

Plus to be honest, the Big Two are terrible about keeping their heroic characters "heroic"; between face-heel turns for heroes, heel-face turns for villains and in either case anvilicious morality plays... I generally assume every character has, is or will be a villain at some point, including times where the story wants me to consider that character to be a hero. While obviously, a character associating with another character is still the writer's fault, as someone on the outside looking in, Cyclops and the direction of his character were probably independent of with whom he was hooking up and more the direction of the stories in general. I mean, Xavier also has had his dark days... and even apart from those, now that I'm not just an adult but an adult with over a decade under his belt, Xavier comes across pretty poorly.

This discussion may potentially be veering too far off topic. I think they actually could be made quite relevant though, so tbrock1031, I'll let you choose whether to pursue it here. Part of this thread has been trying to get a working game world out of this blended and revised Marvel history and characters. One can have the "soap opera" style antics actually prove relevant and be ignored, appropriately reacted to or overreacted to by the background characters (let alone featured ones). Similarly, oversimplified ideals and unintentional hypocrisy. All of this could I think manifest as a wide variety of Disadvantages. Frankly I quite fancy the usual Social Stigma prescribed to "mutants" in the MU be allowed to represent those that hate/fear mutants and those sick of what so many have done in the name of "mutant kind": not the obvious acts of super-villainy, but the little things like "Hi, because we homo superior can't trust you homo sapiens to handle things, we've formed a "mutants only" paramilitary strike force that operates in secret that will police our own and spread unity between our two kinds... again, by being "mutants only". Tootles!"
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:19 PM   #1105
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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This discussion may potentially be veering too far off topic. I think they actually could be made quite relevant though, so tbrock1031, I'll let you choose whether to pursue it here. Part of this thread has been trying to get a working game world out of this blended and revised Marvel history and characters. One can have the "soap opera" style antics actually prove relevant and be ignored, appropriately reacted to or overreacted to by the background characters (let alone featured ones). Similarly, oversimplified ideals and unintentional hypocrisy. All of this could I think manifest as a wide variety of Disadvantages. Frankly I quite fancy the usual Social Stigma prescribed to "mutants" in the MU be allowed to represent those that hate/fear mutants and those sick of what so many have done in the name of "mutant kind": not the obvious acts of super-villainy, but the little things like "Hi, because we homo superior can't trust you homo sapiens to handle things, we've formed a "mutants only" paramilitary strike force that operates in secret that will police our own and spread unity between our two kinds... again, by being "mutants only". Tootles!"
In the Reboot, I haven't prescribed any Social Stigmas to mutants as yet. Should they have SS(Minority Group)? Perhaps, but the only one to have it so far is Scarlet Witch, and she's not just a mutant but a Gypsy.

I've also, if you read the X-Men entry back in... oh, I'll find the post later ... you'll see that the (original five) X-Men are operating in public rather than secret, are attending college at ESU, and have offered membership to Spider-Man, who is distinctly not a mutant (he's remaining a 'reserve' member, though). ;) The Reboot!X-Men aren't quite so "mutants only", though mutants still dominate the title.

The Xavier Institute for Gifted Youngsters still has a limited enrollment, albeit more in the "hundred students" than "fifteen students", but the requirements for enrollment are now "superhuman" rather than "mutant". The fact that most super-powered teenagers are mutants still means that 95% of the student body are mutants or second-generation supers rather than mutates. (They also offer adult enrollment for those who just developed powers.) Xavier's also went public as a "Mutant High".

And then there's the bigots like Gyrich (Director of SHIELD), who clearly have Intolerance.


Still, this brings me to a question that needs to be answered:

"Mutants" are those with an active X-gene which grants them powers. "Mutates" are those who were modified in some other manner to grant powers.

What's a good term for second- or third-generation folks who have the same powers as their mutate forebears? They lack the X-gene, so "mutant" doesn't seem to fit, but nor are they really "mutates", as they inherited their powers.

A few second-generation examples from the comics:

Siryn, Theresa Rourke Cassidy, daughter of Sean Cassidy/Banshee. Both father and daughter have the X-gene, so both are considered mutants. Same with Nightcrawler and his biological mother, Mystique.

Franklin Richards, son of Reed Richards/Mr. Fantastic and Susan Storm Richards/Invisible Woman. Parents are mutates, but Franklin's powers (in all of his incarnations) are vastly different than either parent. Furthermore, Franklin has been shown to have the X-gene, so he counts as a mutant.

Spider-Girl, May Parker II, daughter of Peter Parker/Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson-Parker (most notably the M2 timeline/imprint, but from what I hear the pre-teen version has been reinstated back into the mainstream universe). Powers identical to her father, who is not a mutant. No X-gene involved.
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The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:47 PM   #1106
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
In the Reboot, I haven't prescribed any Social Stigmas to mutants as yet. Should they have SS(Minority Group)? Perhaps, but the only one to have it so far is Scarlet Witch, and she's not just a mutant but a Gypsy.
It really depends on where the Mutant Phobia index is. If Trask et al stir up public fears about evolutionary replacement by mutant humans, the SS might be worse.


Quote:
Still, this brings me to a question that needs to be answered:

"Mutants" are those with an active X-gene which grants them powers. "Mutates" are those who were modified in some other manner to grant powers.

What's a good term for second- or third-generation folks who have the same powers as their mutate forebears? They lack the X-gene, so "mutant" doesn't seem to fit, but nor are they really "mutates", as they inherited their powers.

A few second-generation examples from the comics:

Siryn, Theresa Rourke Cassidy, daughter of Sean Cassidy/Banshee. Both father and daughter have the X-gene, so both are considered mutants. Same with Nightcrawler and his biological mother, Mystique.

Franklin Richards, son of Reed Richards/Mr. Fantastic and Susan Storm Richards/Invisible Woman. Parents are mutates, but Franklin's powers (in all of his incarnations) are vastly different than either parent. Furthermore, Franklin has been shown to have the X-gene, so he counts as a mutant.

Spider-Girl, May Parker II, daughter of Peter Parker/Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson-Parker (most notably the M2 timeline/imprint, but from what I hear the pre-teen version has been reinstated back into the mainstream universe). Powers identical to her father, who is not a mutant. No X-gene involved.
TSR's MSH game referred to mutant children of mutants as breed mutants. I suppose "breed mutate" might work for mutate children of mutates, but the classic definition of mutants was those born with powers (not the x-gene), thus spider-woman's classification as a mutant even though she was altered in-utero.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:58 PM   #1107
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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thus spider-woman's classification as a mutant even though she was altered in-utero.
Which Spider-Woman are we talking about? Jessica Drew was something like six or eight when she came down with radiation sickness (on the slopes of Mt. Wundagore in the '50s), was treated by the High Evolutionary and placed into an almost-stasis to recuperate, and the effects of the treatment, which included using spider venom, gave her her powers. Julia Carpenter was mutated as an adult. Not sure about the other two (Charlotte Witter and Mattie Franklin), as I've never read up on their origins. (Ultimate!Jessica Drew is a gender-altered clone of Peter Parker, so that might qualify as mutant by the classic definition, though not the more modern definition which ties it to a specific genetic code.)
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"But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!"

The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
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Old 07-01-2015, 08:23 PM   #1108
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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It really depends on where the Mutant Phobia index is. If Trask et al stir up public fears about evolutionary replacement by mutant humans, the SS might be worse.

TSR's MSH game referred to mutant children of mutants as breed mutants. I suppose "breed mutate" might work for mutate children of mutates, but the classic definition of mutants was those born with powers (not the x-gene), thus spider-woman's classification as a mutant even though she was altered in-utero.
That's why it's funny Peter Dinklage played an anti-mutant bigot as most dwarfs aren't born to dwarfs making them literally mutants.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:08 PM   #1109
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Which Spider-Woman are we talking about? Jessica Drew was something like six or eight when she came down with radiation sickness
And she was also a spider forcibly evolved into a human.
And a human fetus bombarded with a laser containing spider DNA.
The last origin story is the current retcon. I've no doubt there will be others considering she's a quintuple agent for hydra, shield, fury, sword, and the secret avengers, and her early memories are likely mostly implanted by various agencies.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:23 PM   #1110
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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And she was also a spider forcibly evolved into a human.
And a human fetus bombarded with a laser containing spider DNA.
The last origin story is the current retcon. I've no doubt there will be others considering she's a quintuple agent for hydra, shield, fury, sword, and the secret avengers, and her early memories are likely mostly implanted by various agencies.
Oh jeeze, she's the new Wolverine. Popular, and with an ever-changing origin story. Granted, she's much easier on the eyes than Wolvie ever was. ;)

I had plans to bring her into the Reboot, but I've no clue which origin to use. I'd actually considered making her a Legacy, as opposed to a Mutant or a Mutate, inheriting her powers from a pre-modern-era super.
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The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
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