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Old 08-11-2018, 12:02 AM   #1
dataweaver
 
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Default Are Powers Overpriced?

Consider Divine Favor and Sorcery, two builds of the Powers system that feature extensive use of Alternate Abilities. In theory, you're getting a massive price break (1/5 cost) for the restriction that you can't use two of these miracles/spells at the same time. But in play, that restriction really isn't that restrictive; compare it to massive Limitations, where the most limiting of them have a tendency to top out around -50%; and the rare -80% Limitations are things like “Accessibility: One Person” — restrictions that almost totally cripple the ability.

Originally, when it was Alternate Attacks, the pricing made some sense: the discount came from the fact that the two Attacks had near-complete overlap in their utility, with each attack doing more or less the same thing as the others (i.e., inflict damage on the target), just in different ways. The price break was because the additional Attacks didn't add much to your capabilities.

But when it got generalized to Alternate Abilities, that went out the window: now you could take Abilities designed for drastically different situations, Abilities where you'd be unlikely to find yourself stressing out over which one to sacrifice in order to use the other one — certainly not “one-fifth of the price” levels of nail-biting.

Yet no one complains that the Alternate Abilities are too cheap. Indeed, people seem to flock to Divine Favor and Sorcery because, after an initial investment in the “core ability”, they don't have to pay full price for their prayers or spells. People seem quite satisfied with the costs of Sorcery's spells.

So is it possible that the problem is on the other end? Are Abilities without the Alternate Abilities discount too expensive?
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:25 AM   #2
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Default Re: Are Powers Overpriced?

Maybe? I can see the logic you're presenting: why pay for "use two at the same time" when you never will?

I don't think, though, that there's an absolute answer: frequency like that is always going to be hard to predict. Unless you attach a die roll to switching Alternate Abilities you can't guarantee it's a restriction. Same for the alternative.
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:08 AM   #3
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Default Re: Are Powers Overpriced?

Some advantages are overpriced, Regroth I'm looking at you.
Overall I think most are fine, the AA pricing is like Hero Systems multipower slots. Most powers will be in one but some need to be used together like a defense and an attack.
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:19 AM   #4
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Default Re: Are Powers Overpriced?

Alternate Powers are a central part of the system in many ways, which is why Supers ruthlessly takes advantage of them. The primary disadvantage though is that it is not that you cannot use both powers together, it is that if one power is countered or crippled, both powers are countered or crippled. There are times when you want to use multiple powers though.

For example, you could have a character with Psychokinesis and the Powers of Flight plus Enhanced Move Fight 3 [100], DR 20 with Force Field and Physical Only [100], and Crushing Attack 8d with Malediction 2, No Blunt Trauma, and No Signature [100]. Now, they could be alternate abilities of each other, meaning that the character saves 160 points, but the character could not fly, defend, and attack during the same turn, which could be a problem. The extra tactical utility of simultaneous utilization makes characters much more powerful than they otherwise would be.
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:26 AM   #5
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Default Re: Are Powers Overpriced?

Obviously as a generic system GURPS needs to be tweaked for specific types of games. But speaking generically, suppose a "standard"-ish party of: mundane physical specialist, mundane mental specialist, caster, and power wielder. Each of these pays an expensive initial buy-in cost (this helps produce some specialization) and then a cost for additional abilities.

Mundane physical
expensive buy-in: physical attributes
cheap additional abilities: physical skills

Mundane mental
expensive buy-in: mental attributes
cheap additional abilities: mental skills

Caster
expensive buy-in: Magery (or PI, etc.), IQ
cheap additional abilities: spells

Power Wielder
expensive buy-in: full-cost ability/abilities
cheap additional abilities: alternative abilities

Now each of these boring categories is extremely general and can be specialized infinite ways of course. And don't forget, the Power Wielder can't just buy any old power as an AA. From P11: "The GM shouldn’t permit abilities with incompatible in-game explanations as alternatives."


So are powers overpriced? Well...yes, buying just one ability of a power is overpriced. Just as buying Magery to have only one spell is overpriced (somewhat hyperbolic example I know). GURPS is pushing you to pick a niche and go with it, and I think that's a good thing...
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:41 AM   #6
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Default Re: Are Powers Overpriced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Some advantages are overpriced, Regroth I'm looking at you.
Regrowth should probably be an Enhancement of Regeneration (with maybe a "Limited to Regrowth" Limitation for those times you don't want both).
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:46 AM   #7
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Default Re: Are Powers Overpriced?

Regrowth with Regeneration is a powerful combination, anyone who just buys Regrowth is just not spending their points well.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: Are Powers Overpriced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Regrowth with Regeneration is a powerful combination, anyone who just buys Regrowth is just not spending their points well.
Hence and Enhancement rather than a separate thing.

(I apologize if you weren't speaking to me.)
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:59 AM   #9
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Are Powers Overpriced?

Regrowth really shouldn't be priced higher than the combination of traits that make one immune to the majority of forms of crippling that are likely to come up (i.e. No Eyes, Unbreakable Bones, No Vitals and a few more). In fact it should cost significantly less than such a sum, because one needs to go through weeks to months to get the crippled things 'back'.
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Old 08-11-2018, 09:06 AM   #10
johndallman
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Default Re: Are Powers Overpriced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
So is it possible that the problem is on the other end? Are Abilities without the Alternate Abilities discount too expensive?
I don't think so. I'm playing in two campaigns that use Magic-as-Powers, and running a campaign where there are three casters who use hermetic magic (the basic spell system with decanic modifiers), a psionic and a powers-based character.

In the WWII M-a-P campaign, four characters work that way, and we also have a Path/Book caster and a character with a thematically restricted syntactic magic system. In the other, set in the 1930s, everyone uses M-a-P, but in very different ways.

What I think I've learned from this is that Abilities are good value, if you put the effort into using the enhancements and limitations in ways that save points and do what you want as well. Sorcery and Divine Favor are frameworks that do that for you quite well.

Psionic Powers put more effort into achieving a particular style and flavour than it did into being point-efficient, which means that it's a bit underpowered in some ways, as compared to hermetic magic, but picking the right powers lets it do things that the hermetic magicians have trouble with.
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