Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Board and Card Games > Ogre and G.E.V.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-16-2017, 08:13 AM   #1
GranitePenguin
Ogre Line Editor
 
GranitePenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
Default When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

So... I reported a bug that the Mark IV Ogre in the video game has only 56 treads, but looking at the 6th Edition information that is, in fact, what is on the Reference sheets.

The Mark IV has been 60 treads from 1978-2000 in the boardgame; when was that decision made and why?

From what I can tell, this is Ogre Miniatures bleeding into the rules, where the Mark IV has 56 treads. It's subtle, but I feel like it's wrong.

What's the "correct" number of treads? I don't mean "just because it's printed in ODE as 56" either. I mean, was some decision tree used and 56 the "new official" number, or was it an oversight to use 56 instead of 60 and it needs errata?
__________________
GranitePenguin
Ogre Line Editor
GranitePenguin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 08:39 AM   #2
Thirdpower
 
Thirdpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Central Illinois
Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

Interesting catch. There's the 'OGRE/GEV' combo pack (ISBN 1-55634-426-0) circa 2k and the 'Deluxe GEV' minis set. What do those show?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
So... I reported a bug that the Mark IV Ogre in the video game has only 56 treads, but looking at the 6th Edition information that is, in fact, what is on the Reference sheets.

The Mark IV has been 60 treads from 1978-2000 in the boardgame; when was that decision made and why?

From what I can tell, this is Ogre Miniatures bleeding into the rules, where the Mark IV has 56 treads. It's subtle, but I feel like it's wrong.

What's the "correct" number of treads? I don't mean "just because it's printed in ODE as 56" either. I mean, was some decision tree used and 56 the "new official" number, or was it an oversight to use 56 instead of 60 and it needs errata?
__________________
Days of Our Trailers Blog/Twitter/Facebook Get your KS$4.5K Nihon Sponsor sheet here.
Thirdpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 09:05 AM   #3
GranitePenguin
Ogre Line Editor
 
GranitePenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirdpower View Post
Interesting catch. There's the 'OGRE/GEV' combo pack (ISBN 1-55634-426-0) circa 2k and the 'Deluxe GEV' minis set. What do those show?
Like I said, EVERY version of the boardgame prior to ODE, from 1st Ed G.E.V. to the one you reference (i.e., the last item with G.E.V. rules produced before ODE) has 60 treads.

56 treads was introduced in OM (in 1992), and somehow made it into ODE/6th ed rules. I think that's an error, especially since later releases of the boardgame used 60.
__________________
GranitePenguin
Ogre Line Editor
GranitePenguin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 11:42 AM   #4
Desert Scribe
 
Desert Scribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Austin TX
Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

The 56 tread units was probably because range and movement in Ogre Miniatures are measured in hexes, and 1 hex = 2 inches. So the Mark IV's movement of 4 hexes comes out to 8 inches. Since destroying each set of treads decreases movement by the same amount, the number of treads had to be divisible by the move rate. And because 60 is not divisible by eight, the author went with 56 instead.
__________________
My sci-fi/fantasy wargaming blog: Super Galactic Dreadnought
Desert Scribe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 11:53 AM   #5
GranitePenguin
Ogre Line Editor
 
GranitePenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Scribe View Post
The 56 tread units was probably because range and movement in Ogre Miniatures are measured in hexes, and 1 hex = 2 inches. So the Mark IV's movement of 4 hexes comes out to 8 inches. Since destroying each set of treads decreases movement by the same amount, the number of treads had to be divisible by the move rate. And because 60 is not divisible by eight, the author went with 56 instead.
A plausible reason, but that doesn't explain how it got into ODE (besides me missing the opportunity to flag it in 2012). :-(
__________________
GranitePenguin
Ogre Line Editor
GranitePenguin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 06:51 PM   #6
Steve Jackson
President and EIC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Scribe View Post
Since destroying each set of treads decreases movement by the same amount, the number of treads had to be divisible by the move rate. And because 60 is not divisible by eight, the author went with 56 instead.
Sounds plausible to me (said the one who probably did it).
Steve Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 07:01 PM   #7
GranitePenguin
Ogre Line Editor
 
GranitePenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
Sounds plausible to me (said the one who probably did it).
So the question still remains. Should it be 56 or 60? Should it be different for the Boardgame vs Minis?
__________________
GranitePenguin
Ogre Line Editor
GranitePenguin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 08:05 PM   #8
offsides
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cheltenham, PA
Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
So the question still remains. Should it be 56 or 60? Should it be different for the Boardgame vs Minis?
IIRC (and I may not, my memory gets worse every day...), during the ODE rules discussion it was decided to reduce it from 60 to 56 to ensure that the numbers were the same for hex vs. minis. And given that an M4 Mk IV is hard enough to kill, it was deemed better to reduce to 56 than to increase to 64(!)...
__________________
Joshua Megerman, SJGames MIB #5273 - Ogre AI Testing Division
offsides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 09:40 PM   #9
GranitePenguin
Ogre Line Editor
 
GranitePenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Plainfield, IL
Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by offsides View Post
IIRC (and I may not, my memory gets worse every day...), during the ODE rules discussion it was decided to reduce it from 60 to 56 to ensure that the numbers were the same for hex vs. minis. And given that an M4 Mk IV is hard enough to kill, it was deemed better to reduce to 56 than to increase to 64(!)...
I don't recall that discussion, but I suppose it's theoretically possible I missed it.
__________________
GranitePenguin
Ogre Line Editor
GranitePenguin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 07:44 AM   #10
offsides
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cheltenham, PA
Default Re: When did the Mark IV get 56 treads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
I don't recall that discussion, but I suppose it's theoretically possible I missed it.
Given how much rules discussion was flying around back then, I know I missed some of it. I also don't remember this one getting much discussion, at least compared to things like the SHVY...
__________________
Joshua Megerman, SJGames MIB #5273 - Ogre AI Testing Division
offsides is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.