Characterizing Holiness

[JCD]

I am having a hard time characterizing holiness. Making angels seem angelic. Frankly, my games are low contrast...but that is because I can't seem to imagine a high contrast game without dipping into the saccarine idiocy of Touched by an Angel or some similar drivel.

Any tips would be appreciated.

[Azel]

Oh, I so love Touched by an Angel! I'ma gonna make some popcorn right now! Who wants haagen dazs ice cream? Mmm, saccharine Lifetime TV...

(Well, easiest way I find is working familiar cultural tropes -- a.k.a. work the stereotypes everyone around you knows best.

However, if that's not gonna work, you'll just have to up the ante into finding stuff that your group has mutual faith and devotion in. What ideas and images awe you, transcending the everyday? Some find it in nature; some in patriotic symbolism; some in psychedelic art; some in massive tech server rooms and pristine labs; some in glitzy fashion runways and THE pair of shoes. Wherever is that "shaft of light from the heavens; angels singing from on high" source is, use those images and trappings to convey the sanctity of the moment.

Remember, the key is not imagery that sounds familiar, but imagery that you and your friends can *believe*! No ecstatic emotional connection, no sacred impact. They just become a palette swap of strange aliens fighting over humans again. Angels are all about passion, a terrible, consuming, awe-inspiring passion, and often these passions comprise mankind's basic imagination and motivation. Mercifully the collection of Archangels covers most of what is passionately revered by humans.

So simply, where do you "see god"? When are you humbled? What sets you ablaze and leaves you still? How do you still see wonder? That is where you find the power of the sacred eternal for your game. And even if your players cannot immediately share it, if you believe enough of what you speak the force behind it will convey. It's really a fun GM challenge! Try it!

/thunderous godhead voice
THEY ARE WORDS MADE MANIFEST. AND FROM THE WORD ALL OTHER THINGS CAME FORTH.)

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by JCD

I am having a hard time characterizing holiness. Making angels seem angelic. Frankly, my games are low contrast...but that is because I can't seem to imagine a high contrast game without dipping into the saccarine idiocy of Touched by an Angel or some similar drivel.

Any tips would be appreciated.

TbaA doesn't quite get it; I doubt angels really look like hot Irish chicks with red hair(well, I suppose if it was appropriate to the mission). However making angels seem like Vorlons would in some ways be worse; Vorlons were heartless(except for Kosh) and I can't picture an angel appearing that way unless they were there to bring judgement-or if they had a hard lesson to teach that required sternness. Nor would angels be like ancient gods; those would be to silly. Idealistic Hot Irish Chicks with Red Hair do actually carry some of the aura. However angels would certainly be frightening to mortals.

Tolkiens Maia and Vala would probably be a better image. Picture Gandalf appearing in dreams to comfort the Children of Illuvatar in their sleep(that was his job in The Silmarilion when he was not being a wizard).

One problem humans have is that among humans power is so often divorced from goodness that it is difficult to imagine it in the same person. This is especially difficult if the authority figures one grew up with are people one doesn't get along with(I had the good fortune to generally get along with my father). It is also difficult because humans tend to associate power with the power to destroy. An angel wouldn't need to destroy and so would avoid it(just as a policeman has so much power behind him that leaving bloodshed behind is usually considered a sign of inelegant craftsmanship, among other things, by the best constabularies)unless again, it was part of the mission. The power displayed would be more in healing or in comfort.

Having an angelic PC would be almost impossible for a number of reasons, one of the best being that every PC is run by a player that has human flaws.
It is hard to imagine an angel having human flaws(Tolkien rather slipped by making Gandalf a grumpy old man; I suppose it was unavoidable). If it had major flaws it would be a demon, if it had minor flaws it would be a leprechaun(that was in legend one of the postulated orgins of the Fair Folk), but it neither case would it be human. Comparing it to a human character of holiness is difficult; when human characters are made to exemplify holiness they are usually seeker archetypes like the Red Lama in Kim, or Eric Liddel in Chariots. Unfortunately those are Neutral Good characters and an angel would have to be Lawful Good. Victor Lazlo is a better imitation(he was mildly Sue-ish in any case).

So an angel if you picture it, would have to be a Patron or Contact and he would have to be briefly seen.

CS Lewis wrote that one thing he regretted about Screwtape was that he could imagine being like a devil but not like an angel. If some of his creatures in his writings are any guide, he would have done better then me.

So there is your problem. If you want to show an angel that looks like I would imagine it to look you could only sustain it for one scene. If you try to make it a character you probably can't make it convincing. Unless you actually met one which for some reason seems doubtful to me.

[jason taylor]

Another way to put it is to picture an Eldritch Abomination. Then picture it actually having benevolence toward human beings. Individual human beings as well; the tendency to treat humans as commodities that even the best human rulers have is a limitation not an attribute; we assume fantastic creatures would have this quality because human power is inseparable from dehumanizing people(even if the purpose is ultimately beneficial) because of the lack of human capability.

Link in Belisarius Series actually does better then many at portraying what an angel is like. He is incomprehensible, but he is also friendly and he is not to proud to submit to a human authority when his mission requires.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Link in Belisarius Series actually does better then many at portraying what an angel is like. He is incomprehensible, but he is also friendly and he is not to proud to submit to a human authority when his mission requires.

That would be Aide, I think? Link is the villain, and not friendly at all.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by DAlillama

That would be Aide, I think? Link is the villain, and not friendly at all.

You're right. Link even possessed Autistic girls, of all things.

Yeah, I did mean Aide.

[Jason]

The holiest people I have known have been humble, faithful, and still aware of their own doubts. To me, carrying oneself with much more confidence and control in religious convictions stops seeming "holy" at a certain point and just starts looking "self-righteous."

One thing I have found helpful to make things feel low contrast without it being no contrast, then, is to not have angels flaunt being holy all the time. I think it's that much more ... affecting, perhaps? Touching? ... to play up angels' humanness, and let their holiness shine through in the face of vulnerability and adversity. Sure, angels in In Nomine are "alien," but even in their alienness, they can seem very human: reacting to the unexpected with embarrassment, haplessness, self-doubt, and hope, and just trying to get a job done like any one of us (even if the job is entirely unlike ours). Angels are only really sappy and stupid in their holiness when they are totally calm about it and confident in themselves.

[JCD]

Originally Posted by Jason

The holiest people I have known have been humble, faithful, and still aware of their own doubts. To me, carrying oneself with much more confidence and control in religious convictions stops seeming "holy" at a certain point and just starts looking "self-righteous."

One thing I have found helpful to make things feel low contrast without it being no contrast, then, is to not have angels flaunt being holy all the time. I think it's that much more ... affecting, perhaps? Touching? ... to play up angels' humanness, and let their holiness shine through in the face of vulnerability and adversity. Sure, angels in In Nomine are "alien," but even in their alienness, they can seem very human: reacting to the unexpected with embarrassment, haplessness, self-doubt, and hope, and just trying to get a job done like any one of us (even if the job is entirely unlike ours). Angels are only really sappy and stupid in their holiness when they are totally calm about it and confident in themselves.

I don't know. It seems to me that an angel, having seen the cogs of Creation, having met being who saw the Earth cool, and KNEW that they were builders of The Plan of All Creation, would inspire a certain 'centeredness' that seems to keep them grounded. Tariel didn't despair when he was getting his butt kicked. He did his best to hurt them and died, confident that he was going to Heaven and would be back soon to take out the trash.

But how to do that credibly...

[Jason]

Originally Posted by JCD

I don't know. It seems to me that an angel, having seen the cogs of Creation, having met being who saw the Earth cool, and KNEW that they were builders of The Plan of All Creation, would inspire a certain 'centeredness' that seems to keep them grounded. Tariel didn't despair when he was getting his butt kicked. He did his best to hurt them and died, confident that he was going to Heaven and would be back soon to take out the trash.

But how to do that credibly...

And yet he Fell when his charge was killed. (Infernal Player's Guide, I think.)

I think interesting characters can be both powerful and vulnerable, especially given different context. Aside from the whole Falling bit, are you saying that Tariel was a good example of a "holy" character who you're unsure how to emulate, or that his holiness came off as unbelievable to you? I actually rather like his character, and see him as a kind of model for how I design certain kinds of angelic NPCs: a little crazy, but passionate (there's that word again) about working for Heaven, willing to die for a cause but able to cry like a baby when the pressure gets to be too much.

[Azel]

Quick question: Do you own or have you read the APG?

For all its flaws (I'm pretty OK with it), I found its characterization of the Angelic mind quite useful. The breakdown of inner and outer traits helps flesh out that sanctity of spirit. It explains why such behavior is angelic, and yet flexible enough to be playable as a real personality. This holiness approaches many of the good aspects of humanity, but notes that it is of an intensity unsustainable by the average human. And angelic alienness derives from the disconnect of certain human (and demonic) traits taken for granted.