In Nomine: Marketing

Lucius Drake · 09-16-2004, 04:40 PM

In response to comment by Archangel Beth about needing a new topic for this!

1) How good/bad has In Nomine marketing been in your areas?
2) Would you have paid more attention with a different marketing style?
3) What needs to change?
4) Would you be interested in a fresh marketing approach (hopefully accompanied by new products)?

Here in New Zealand, the only reason I knew about IN was that my friend (and GM) is an MiB, and also happens to be a rabid In Nomine fan ("and lo, I hath been converted :P). I doubt that I would ever have found out about it by myself. Either that, or I would have dropped in on my FLGS, seen it, been confused by the lack of support/clarity, and left it alone.

For me to have got into In Nomine is nothing short of amazing serendipity (ha! thought I was going to say "miracle"?). There was no marketing device that led me to it. Had there been a marketing campaign, I would have paid a great deal more attention, and may even have found the game independently.

I would like to see In Nomine being represented to the public better. Most of the people that I already know either play In Nomine with our group, or are most interested in "Vampire: The Teen-Angst"! Perhaps what we need to do here in NZ is to showcase the world. People like Angels and Demons, people like the idea of cool cinematic action. If we show people that these both exist in one mega-cool setting, and then teach them the system, without letting them read the Core Rules, I believe we could convert people to IN.

(The Point about not reading the Core Rules as a new player cannot be stressed enough, the layout is confusing enough as an experienced player :))

As a response to my own final question - I would very much be interested in a fresh launch with new/repackaged material. This would entail:

A new, reorganised, core rule book.

An Extended Players Guide (Infernal & Angelic packed together into one core rulebook)

A GMs book (GMs guide, Servitorum, You Are Here)

Goodies book! (Canticorum & Reliquarium together)

I'm not sure what to do with the Superiors volumes... maybe when all of them are written up (fingers crossed), there could be a bumper book of AAs? Or two volumes for each side? I know that more books equals more money (in theory), but practically I think it means that fewer sales are made... I'm no economist though.

My 2? Essence.

Please post rabidly and fanatically! Just remember that the posts have to be coherently rabid and fanatical :P

fadethecat · 09-16-2004, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucius Drake

In response to comment by Archangel Beth about needing a new topic for this!

1) How good/bad has In Nomine marketing been in your areas?
2) Would you have paid more attention with a different marketing style?
3) What needs to change?
4) Would you be interested in a fresh marketing approach (hopefully accompanied by new products)?

I've never yet gotten into an RPG because of advertising; it was always because a friend recommended it. Most RPG advertising I've seen for all sorts of products has been at best mildly interesting, and at worst offensive or mockable. If In Nomine is ever going to get a bigger push, it would be from fans pushing it, not because there's another burning feather poster on some game store's wall. And, well, the fans are already there. And some of them push it. And some of them don't.

The problem as I see it: what kind of advertising would really communicate to a sufficient number of gamers in such a way that it would be cost effective? Is another poster going to do it? Don't think that would do it. Promotions tend to trigger people's "This game is going under" cues, not "Gee! A cool new game I should get into!" in my experience, so I don't really see that helping any. Fans can't push much harder than they already do. I can see new e23 products for In Nomine helping, because it's new products for the game line, but that's part of the e23 advertising issue. And no one's going to bother buying ad space in gaming magazines when there's no new physical book to push.

Honestly, I'm trying to think of cost-effective advertising methods that are available, and I can't think of any that would be both practical and effective. I'm interested in seeing what other people come up with.

Archangel Beth · 09-16-2004, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fadethecat

Honestly, I'm trying to think of cost-effective advertising methods that are available, and I can't think of any that would be both practical and effective. I'm interested in seeing what other people come up with.

RPG.net reviews? Though those have to be done by independent minions, not game companies...

fadethecat · 09-16-2004, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

RPG.net reviews? Though those have to be done by independent minions, not game companies...

*shuffles feet, looks sheepish* I meant to get that review written...

Lucius Drake · 09-16-2004, 06:49 PM

The problem that I am seeing is that the fans just are not pushing In Nomine. Or if they are, I have yet to hear their voices (other than the few that I actually know).

I'm trying to think of ways to expand upon the existing fan-base, to raise enough interest so as to make it commercially viable to produce the In Nomine products that would round out the line (see the thread regarding what the fans want to be written).

From a relatively objective perspective, In Nomine is an excellent system. Boiled down to its simplest (ala Occam's Razor), the system is easy to learn, and easier to use. The default setting is the modern world (look no further than today's headlines for inspiration). The PCs are beings that almost every culture is familiar with in some way. There is nothing that states that In Nomine must be irreverent, or blasphemous... although the line "satanized for your protection" is not winning any converts from the religious front!

Having said that, I don't think that removing that line would necessarily help either. After all, the kinds of people who would be offended by that quote are not likely to be the people who play RPGs at all, much less one that has a religious premise. Roleplaying being so closely related to Satanism across the board, apparently *rolls eyes*

From my perspective, I think that the one of the best ways to push In Nomine is to target people who don't play RPGs often, or at all. Hook them with atmosphere and fiction, rather than mechanics. This relates to why I don't think that an In Nomine Lite alone will win many players to the game. It would have to be packaged with some kind of text that would interest people in the game, something that would cause them to think "gee, this has really neat, clear mechanic for how to do all this cool stuff".

Blow them away with descriptions of what one can do within IN, then show them how easy it is to do it. Show people the cinematic, super-powered action against a background of theology & philosophy.

I can see it now: "A rich tapestry of light and darkness, punctuated [yes the mixed metaphor is necessary for a review :P] by moments of incredible depth and beauty" :)

Maybe a B-grade feature film should be made. Something with action galore, and a deep background to appeal to the fan crowd. Build a fan-base like Star Wars did!

Seriously though, I push In Nomine as a fan-culture, rather than just a game.

Hmmm... what about a book of short stories? I know that there are plenty of talented In Nomine fan fiction writers out there...

Okay, I think I've rambled on long enough. Long enough, I think, to throw out some wild ideas that might spark something, somewhere, and I hope that other people have as many crazy ideas as I do.

They don't have to be practical, that's not the point of brainstorming (well, the best I can claim is "brainlightraining", but you know what I mean).

Jennifer · 09-16-2004, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucius Drake

Hmmm... what about a book of short stories? I know that there are plenty of talented In Nomine fan fiction writers out there...

The problem there is licensing. SJG does not hold the fiction rights to In Nomine. You'd have to show an expected profit great enough to offset the additional licensing costs.

Disclaimer: I am not an SJG employee, and do not speak for the company in any way. I merely give my limited understanding of the situation.

Lucius Drake · 09-16-2004, 08:53 PM

Thanks, Jennifer! See, that's the kind of thing I hadn't thought about at all.
I'm not one for thinking about economics, but that does make a lot of sense.

There must be a lot of ways to expand upon this gaming line, and I'd like to be able to collect as many opinions as possible - even practical critiques on why they aren't likely to work (ala fiction licensing - thanks again.)

09-16-2004, 04:40 PM	#1
Lucius Drake Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand	In Nomine: Marketing In response to comment by Archangel Beth about needing a new topic for this! 1) How good/bad has In Nomine marketing been in your areas? 2) Would you have paid more attention with a different marketing style? 3) What needs to change? 4) Would you be interested in a fresh marketing approach (hopefully accompanied by new products)? Here in New Zealand, the only reason I knew about IN was that my friend (and GM) is an MiB, and also happens to be a rabid In Nomine fan ("and lo, I hath been converted :P). I doubt that I would ever have found out about it by myself. Either that, or I would have dropped in on my FLGS, seen it, been confused by the lack of support/clarity, and left it alone. For me to have got into In Nomine is nothing short of amazing serendipity (ha! thought I was going to say "miracle"?). There was no marketing device that led me to it. Had there been a marketing campaign, I would have paid a great deal more attention, and may even have found the game independently. I would like to see In Nomine being represented to the public better. Most of the people that I already know either play In Nomine with our group, or are most interested in "Vampire: The Teen-Angst"! Perhaps what we need to do here in NZ is to showcase the world. People like Angels and Demons, people like the idea of cool cinematic action. If we show people that these both exist in one mega-cool setting, and then teach them the system, without letting them read the Core Rules, I believe we could convert people to IN. (The Point about not reading the Core Rules as a new player cannot be stressed enough, the layout is confusing enough as an experienced player :)) As a response to my own final question - I would very much be interested in a fresh launch with new/repackaged material. This would entail: A new, reorganised, core rule book. An Extended Players Guide (Infernal & Angelic packed together into one core rulebook) A GMs book (GMs guide, Servitorum, You Are Here) Goodies book! (Canticorum & Reliquarium together) I'm not sure what to do with the Superiors volumes... maybe when all of them are written up (fingers crossed), there could be a bumper book of AAs? Or two volumes for each side? I know that more books equals more money (in theory), but practically I think it means that fewer sales are made... I'm no economist though. My 2? Essence. Please post rabidly and fanatically! Just remember that the posts have to be coherently rabid and fanatical :P __________________ "Dr. Jackson will see you now."

09-16-2004, 06:49 PM	#5
Lucius Drake Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand	Re: In Nomine: Marketing The problem that I am seeing is that the fans just are not pushing In Nomine. Or if they are, I have yet to hear their voices (other than the few that I actually know). I'm trying to think of ways to expand upon the existing fan-base, to raise enough interest so as to make it commercially viable to produce the In Nomine products that would round out the line (see the thread regarding what the fans want to be written). From a relatively objective perspective, In Nomine is an excellent system. Boiled down to its simplest (ala Occam's Razor), the system is easy to learn, and easier to use. The default setting is the modern world (look no further than today's headlines for inspiration). The PCs are beings that almost every culture is familiar with in some way. There is nothing that states that In Nomine must be irreverent, or blasphemous... although the line "satanized for your protection" is not winning any converts from the religious front! Having said that, I don't think that removing that line would necessarily help either. After all, the kinds of people who would be offended by that quote are not likely to be the people who play RPGs at all, much less one that has a religious premise. Roleplaying being so closely related to Satanism across the board, apparently rolls eyes From my perspective, I think that the one of the best ways to push In Nomine is to target people who don't play RPGs often, or at all. Hook them with atmosphere and fiction, rather than mechanics. This relates to why I don't think that an In Nomine Lite alone will win many players to the game. It would have to be packaged with some kind of text that would interest people in the game, something that would cause them to think "gee, this has really neat, clear mechanic for how to do all this cool stuff". Blow them away with descriptions of what one can do within IN, then show them how easy it is to do it. Show people the cinematic, super-powered action against a background of theology & philosophy. I can see it now: "A rich tapestry of light and darkness, punctuated [yes the mixed metaphor is necessary for a review :P] by moments of incredible depth and beauty" :) Maybe a B-grade feature film should be made. Something with action galore, and a deep background to appeal to the fan crowd. Build a fan-base like Star Wars did! Seriously though, I push In Nomine as a fan-culture, rather than just a game. Hmmm... what about a book of short stories? I know that there are plenty of talented In Nomine fan fiction writers out there... Okay, I think I've rambled on long enough. Long enough, I think, to throw out some wild ideas that might spark something, somewhere, and I hope that other people have as many crazy ideas as I do. They don't have to be practical, that's not the point of brainstorming (well, the best I can claim is "brainlightraining", but you know what I mean). __________________ "Dr. Jackson will see you now."

09-16-2004, 08:53 PM	#7
Lucius Drake Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand	Re: In Nomine: Marketing Thanks, Jennifer! See, that's the kind of thing I hadn't thought about at all. I'm not one for thinking about economics, but that does make a lot of sense. There must be a lot of ways to expand upon this gaming line, and I'd like to be able to collect as many opinions as possible - even practical critiques on why they aren't likely to work (ala fiction licensing - thanks again.) __________________ "Dr. Jackson will see you now."