What GURPS needs... now

[JMason]

Originally Posted by Gollum

Having said that, when discussing adventures, can someone tell me which one of these adventures are really ready to play ones?

I'm writing a page "Where to Find GURPS Adventures?" on my website and had the unpleasant experience to note that some of those references are not adventures, but articles which help you to built your own adventures by yourself. They may be very good and interesting (I have no doubt about that), but it would be deceptive for someone who looks for ready to play stuff.

So, since my website is mainly aimed at newcomer GMs, I would like to have a clear list of the really ready to play adventures. Can someone help me, please?

This got me looking through the Pyramid issues to see which have adventures. I nice list of those would be great... but it's a bit more complicated than that...

There are a ton of adventure-like articles. Mini-campaign settings, locations, adventure frameworks, etc. So, it can be hard to parse what exactly qualifies as an "adventure".

[Propjock]

Originally Posted by philosophyguy

Most importantly, those sentences on how to do the conversion don't exist anywhere except this forum post. If a new player does try to make the conversion, they will probably be working from the 4e Update. They will try to do the whole conversion from that document, while you've used your knowledge of two systems—3e and 4e—in order to distill down what's relevant. A new player won't have that ability. They may think that NPC points matter. They won't know which skills or advantages have changed, which may result in either spending a lot of time looking up a missing skill in frustration. They won't know whether it matter that the weapon stats have changed because they don't have experience in how combat plays out in either edition.

QFT. I am familiar with 4e but never played 3e. I probably could do the leg work to figure out the system delta without buying or reading 3e beyond the updates, I'd wonder whether the total work time would just be the same as coming up with my own adventure.

I think that if we can't say "ready-to-play" about something without any "except for..." clause then it's just not ready-to-play. From a new user adoption standpoint, it really needs to be that black and white or we're really just defending status quo.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Propjock

QFT. I am familiar with 4e but never played 3e. I probably could do the leg work to figure out the system delta without buying or reading 3e beyond the updates, I'd wonder whether the total work time would just be the same as coming up with my own adventure.

I posted an example NPC from one of the adventures above. Are you telling me that that NPC is so confusing that you couldn't use it? And that's pretty much it. Most adventures are pretty lite on "stats;" they may suggest rolling against a skill in a certain situation, or how to handle something like a disease by rolling against HT. None of that stuff changes. The NPC write-ups are basically the most crunchy bits, and they are basically unchanged.

Originally Posted by Propjock

I think that if we can't say "ready-to-play" about something without any "except for..." clause then it's just not ready-to-play. From a new user adoption standpoint, it really needs to be that black and white or we're really just defending status quo.

I'm not sure what you want then - conversions for the existing adventures? New Editions of the current adventures fully converted to 4e and re-edited and laid out anew? Brand new adventures?

The fact is that any time there is a difference between editions there are going to be a few differences. In the case of GURPS 3e to 4e the differences aren't that great in most instances outside of "powers" games - specifically the Supers/Psionic/Cyber ones - but most stats from 3e are perfectly usable in 4e. Gollum's idea was to look over the existing adventures and figure out which ones can be run as-is in 4e, and most of them can be with the single caveat of PD. Saying that because those adventures aren't specifically written for 4e and therefore are unplayable completely misses the point. A new player who comes along and sees someone talking about the difference between GURPS 3e and 4e the way you (and a few others) have done is going to assume that those differences are like the difference between D&D 3e & 4e - which were essentially different games - and in the case of GURPS is utterly incorrect. In fact, the changes from edition to editon in GURPS have been so slight I can show you stat blocks from Orcslayer (which was the first GURPS supplement ever, coming out before GURPS 1e) and - now that you know about PD - you will fully understand the characters or to handle the task roll that's being required. The basic mechanics are that close.

[sir_pudding]

GURPS Update is still a thing and IIRC comes with Characters.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

GURPS Update is still a thing and IIRC comes with Characters.

Actually, it came with the GM Screen. And is available as a free PDF if somebody goes searching for it.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by JMason

There are a ton of adventure-like articles. Mini-campaign settings, locations, adventure frameworks, etc. So, it can be hard to parse what exactly qualifies as an "adventure".

Yes, I do agree.

Usually, an adventure is a plot, with the required maps and the NPCs, with their stats.

But, actually, the plot can be more or less detailed. Likewise, all maps are not always given, especially when they are supposed to be common areas (inn, motel, castle of the Lord ...). And some NPC may have no stat (the common guard, secretary, merchant ...).

Furthermore, to be very honest, there is always a bit work to do when playing a ready to play adventure: the GM has to read it carefully, to take some notes, and, often, to change a little bit the introduction to fit his own campaign.

Having said that, we can go on with the definition above. There must be a plot (otherwise, the GM will have to invent it), there must be NPCs with their stats, at minimum for the main foes and allies (otherwise, the GM will have to invent them) and there must be some maps (otherwise, the GM will have to draw them by himself, taking into account the details of the plot, which is not always easy).

So, encounters, area descriptions and interesting items of equipment are not adventures. Even if they are very interesting encounters like those described in Creatures of the Night series (which immediately make think to some good adventures) or amazing areas like an interesting town with its description, major NPC, and so on or amazing magical objects ... The plot is missing and the GM will have to invent it. Which is not so easy as long as you are not just playing a dungeon crawling campaign, and you want your game to have some mysteries and unforeseen development. All that are adventures seeds, and, no matter how good they are, they are not really to play adventures.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

I'm not sure what you want then - conversions for the existing adventures? New Editions of the current adventures fully converted to 4e and re-edited and laid out anew? Brand new adventures?

What do I want? Brand New adventures. There have been, what?, 7 adventures made for 4e in the last 13 years? That is a poor number, and you can't keep relying on 3e adventures to boost the numbers.

I want a robust amount of adventure support. I want NEW things that can generate excitement. I want NEW things that can be nominated for ENnies.

When I was at GenCon I walked into the Chaosium room and they had some new adventures being run by their equivalent of MIBs. They were run multiple times throughout the who GenCon and would get you familiar with 7th Ed CoC as well as the new RuneQuest. And if you went there you got the free RuneQuest Quickstart rules.

I want better adventure support. Not 20 years ago in 3e, but now. In the current day. I don't want to tell prospective new GURPSers that yeah! We have stuff...but it is all 25 years old and for the last edition. That is not a cute look.

[sir_pudding]

People need to write them.

Personally my main bottleneck is finding GURPS literate reviewers for my drafts. :(

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

I've categorized them, and added a couple that were missing from the list.

[...]

Many Thanks, Ericbsmith! That is exactly what I was looking for.

I do agree with the comments above: adventures for 3rd edition are not really to play ones, and depending on the GM experience, it can be more or less hard to convert them to the 4th one.

Now, you are still right. Sometimes, it is quite easy to do, with GURPS Update (which can be downloaded freely), and some other hints (the ones you gave are just fine!). And it would be a pity to leave newcomers without them! Some are just very good. Did I already speak about Trepasser's Isle?
;-)

So, what will I do?

• I will clearly separate 4th edition adventures from 3rd edition one. One page for each edition.
• For 4th edition adventures, I will give direct links to them. There is no problem, actually.
• And, on the page of 3rd edition ones, I will give all the required hints to help newcomer GMs to find GURPS Update and all the required hints (Ericbsmith, can I quote you directly, please - with your name, of course).

No matter your answer, thank you again for your great help!

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

And is available as a free PDF if somebody goes searching for it.

Or you could just provide the link: http://www.warehouse23.com/products/SJG30-6024