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Old 11-06-2018, 12:15 PM   #1
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Forced Retreats

I think Forced Retreats are one of the most interesting and potentially consequential details of combat in TFT; they are one of your only chances to directly manipulate the position of an opponent on the map, and can be used to achieve all sorts of effects: setting up a subsequent pole weapon charge, forcing a foe to charge your set pole weapon if he/she wants to re-engage, creating an opportunity to run away without spending a turn disengaging, and, most fun, forcing a foe into a hex that contains some direct or indirect threat.

I find it a little frustrating that you can force a retreat into a fire hex or pit (p.118) but not into a hex that contains another figure. These are two situations where it would clearly be physically possible to enter that hex, its just undesirable. If the thing you don't want to bump into is a flame you can be pushed; if it is another person you can't. Oh well; I guess that's how rules work.
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:39 PM   #2
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Forced Retreats

Yes, it can be one of the more interesting elements of play, which can nicely make the map situation and how figures arrange themselves important, IF there are interesting potential consequences. There can be a nice tension between the advantage of having your figures close together (so they concentrate attacks and block each others' side and rear hexes), and disadvantages (from not being able to deny HTH attempts, or from effects of forced retreats).

In the original rules, if a figure had nowhere to retreat to, they had to make a DX roll or fall down. I don't know why that was omitted from the new rules, but it seems to me that was a very important/fun/interesting effect. Like several other nice old omitted/changed rules, it's easy for us players who know/have the old rules to keep using the old rules, but I'm a bit sorry for the changes for the sake of new players, official RAW play, and online discussions.

I also always played that if someone fell down involuntarily near a hazard such as a pit hex, they needed to roll not to fall into the pit.
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Old 11-06-2018, 01:07 PM   #3
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Forced Retreats

The 3d save vs falling was an important added wrinkle and I too am unsure why it was removed. It is present for shield bashes and push backs by large figures. I would guess either it was removed from forced retreats because SJ changed his mind about what they were supposed to represent, physically, or because he just didn't think it worth including as yet another line of rules in the final edited book. I'm o.k. with its removal; the only real problem it makes is now I need to remember that a forced retreat follows different rules from a push back.

This is an element of play that means little when two foes face off on an empty arena floor but can be critical when teams fight each other or there is terrain with which you can interact. I played a game this last saturday that included a 4 on 4 melee in a space with a half dozen large fire pits breaking up the space. The entire fight was mostly about movement, positioning, deciding when to risk a jump over a fire pit vs. when you should run around. The turning point in the battle was a turn where one figure on one side got to force a foe to retreat into a fire pit, he missed his DX save and in he went. This led immediately to a 2 on one situation that permitted a pole weapon charge from the rear (whatever that means to you as a euphemism, it's a bad situation in TFT!), which immediately led to a 3 on one situation that resulted in a blood bath, leaving a 4 on one situation against a stranded, ST-depleted magician - game over.
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Old 09-02-2019, 06:05 PM   #4
Brazen Hussey
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Default Re: Forced Retreats

I sure like the idea that if a forced retreat situation occurs where the opponent cannot retreat that there be some kind of negative, or potentially negative consequences. But the chance of falling down might have been ruled as potentially too negative.

Instead, they could possibly take 1 extra damage or be at adjDX -1 on their next action. What do you think of either or those? Any other ideas?
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Old 09-02-2019, 09:14 PM   #5
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Forced Retreats

I think the original 3/DX roll or fall worked very well and made sense.
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:17 AM   #6
Brazen Hussey
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Default Re: Forced Retreats

Yeah, I'm not arguing, just wondering why it was removed and if anyone has tried any alternative penalties.
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Old 09-03-2019, 05:58 PM   #7
Shostak
 
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Forced Retreats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
I think the original 3/DX roll or fall worked very well and made sense.
Absolutely. I wish I had spotted the change when the Legacy Edition PDF went out to backers. It is completely odd that being backed up against other figures or a wall should somehow exempt a figure from the effects of a forced retreat.
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