12-16-2009, 07:54 AM | #131 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
|
Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Numerical identity is a linguistic term with no basis in reality. Its very definition is so vague as to be useless when actually identifying objects. What's the real, as opposed to ideal, definition of identity? Online dictionaries say that if things are 'identical', that means they're equivalent.
|
12-16-2009, 08:50 AM | #132 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
|
Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Quote:
Bill Stoddard |
|
12-16-2009, 09:03 AM | #133 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
|
Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
If the copies are indistinguishable in any meaningful way, yes. For instance, the textbooks in school are distingishable by the name on one of the last pages, but straight rulers of the same model are not, so my deskmate and I usually took home whichever one was nearest. Likewise with ethernet cables among my friends, or with mice of the same model (a case with my ex back in the days), or the set identical spoons in my kitchen.
|
12-16-2009, 09:25 AM | #134 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
|
Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Quote:
(b) From the proposition that "these cables are all equivalent and interchangeable" it does not follow that "it's not a problem if you take the cable that is connecting two components that I am using, and use it to connect two components that you intend to use, without telling me and getting my permission." (c) The Bill Stoddard who is an organic being, and the hypothetical Bill Stoddard who is a program being run on a highly sophisticated computer, are certainly distinguishable; in fact it's quite easy to do so. Therefore by your own criterion they cannot be identical to each other. The only reason that you consider them identical is that they have a historical continuity with each other . . . and that historical continuity is precisely a matter of space-time trajectory, which you seem not to recognize as valid or meaningful. So your own view of the matter seems to be inconsistent. Bill Stoddard |
|
12-16-2009, 09:29 AM | #135 | |
Join Date: Oct 2004
|
Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Quote:
And how do you deal with the legal side ? If you argue that ghosts A, B and C are identical, will you punish B and C if A commits a crime and disappears ? If A earns money, do you argue that B and C own it too ? If A marries, is the spouse married to B and C as well regardless of the spouse´s wishes ? |
|
12-16-2009, 09:31 AM | #136 | |
Join Date: Oct 2004
|
Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Quote:
|
|
12-16-2009, 09:38 AM | #137 | |
Join Date: Oct 2004
|
Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Quote:
In addition, IMO "accessible to the players" is problematic. Let´s say one copy (not mine) is highly radioactive. I cannot notice this without instruments I do not have, so right now I cannot distinguish. I do not even know about this difference. Nevertheless I would see a problem if another player would replace his radioactive copy with my non-radioactive one, and leave me with his radioactive one. And at the microscopic level the copies are always distinguishable. Which reminds me: can ghosts be truly identical at the quantum level ? |
|
12-16-2009, 09:47 AM | #138 | ||
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
|
Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Quote:
Quote:
Examine again the examples of other maintenance of identity: the city that ceased to exist in all senses, then was built anew and is still Moscow, the shrine (likewise), and most importantly, the operating system which is copied-and-deleted (moved) between different disks in a redundant array of inexpensive disks. In all these cases the materials changed, but the new entities matched the criteria of identification: the administrative position, the spiritual/religious position, and the informational content. I do not claim that the entity whswhs-ghost-2010 (or whatever) is fully identical to whswhs-2009, any more than I claim that whswhs-2009 is fully identical to whswhs-2008. But all these entities belong to the set whswhs. |
||
12-16-2009, 09:50 AM | #139 | |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
|
Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Quote:
Back in the day, vicky-2007 was Ler's SO, but vicky-2009 is Lee's SO. Naughty things allowed to vicky-2007 and to vicky-2009 are different. But both are vicky. |
|
12-16-2009, 09:53 AM | #140 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
|
Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
If it has meaningful differences from the other one, it is meaningful. Otherwise it's just superstition.
|
Tags |
verhängnisthread |
|
|