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Old 07-21-2019, 06:35 PM   #11
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: An interesting quandary

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Originally Posted by Tigrah2k View Post
Though, that does still beg the question then... how do you decipher the "source", or identify the "best source" for it under the given intent?
By the power source modifier, if one is present. If no power source is specified, it does not have a power source and cannot be targeted by powers that specify a power source. 'Cosmic' is basically 'rules exemption': the power ignores a rule that normally applies to that power. Note that 'rules exemption: can target powers without a power source' is legitimate.
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Last edited by Anthony; 07-21-2019 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:58 PM   #12
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: An interesting quandary

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This is a demonstration of why 'cosmic' is a absolutely terrible choice of a name for a modifier, because Cosmic is not intended to be a power source, cosmic is just "this power breaks a rule that normally applies to powers of this type", but because it sounds like a power source, everyone wants to treat it as if it is one.
That is not really accurate. I've discussed this a lot with Kromm. The actual problem is that "Cosmic" has at least two meanings (ignoring its specialized meaning with Modular Abilities). One is the one you specify: It ignores some standard rule in some major way. But the other is a power modifier: there are no countermeasures—not mundane countermeasures, not specialized high-tech countermeasures, not anti-powers, not even the countermeasures that normally affect the wild version of an ability. See GURPS Powers 20-21. As it says a bit later, "nothing can neutralize your power or cut off its energy source" (p. 26). A handy summary is that if you are granted your powers BY a deity you have Divine (-10%), but if you ARE a deity you have Cosmic (+50%).
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:16 PM   #13
Anthony
 
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Default Re: An interesting quandary

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That is not really accurate. I've discussed this a lot with Kromm. The actual problem is that "Cosmic" has at least two meanings
Which is even worse, because in that case it should be two separate enhancements.
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Old 07-21-2019, 08:52 PM   #14
Tigrah2k
 
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Default Re: An interesting quandary

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Which is even worse, because in that case it should be two separate enhancements.
For the sake of discussion. How would you address breaking it into two separate enhancements to address what you perceive as a lack of clarity in the "cosmic" enhancement(s)?
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:04 PM   #15
Anthony
 
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Default Re: An interesting quandary

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For the sake of discussion. How would you address breaking it into two separate enhancements to address what you perceive as a lack of clarity in the "cosmic" enhancement(s)?
Enhancement 1: "Rules Exemption (variable, often 50%): you ignore a rule that normally applies to this power."
Enhancement 2: "Ignores Defense (50/300%): you ignore something that normally stops this power. This is +50% to ignore an immunity or equivalent, +300% (if even available) if it bypasses general purpose defenses such as DR or HT".

If you want an 'ultimate power source', it's up to the GM what that source is, and you implement it by just spending lots of points, not by an enhancement.
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:41 PM   #16
Tigrah2k
 
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Default Re: An interesting quandary

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Enhancement 1: "Rules Exemption (variable, often 50%): you ignore a rule that normally applies to this power."
Enhancement 2: "Ignores Defense (50/300%): you ignore something that normally stops this power. This is +50% to ignore an immunity or equivalent, +300% (if even available) if it bypasses general purpose defenses such as DR or HT".

If you want an 'ultimate power source', it's up to the GM what that source is, and you implement it by just spending lots of points, not by an enhancement.
That sounds like exactly how it's broken down, especially in GCA...
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:50 PM   #17
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Default Re: An interesting quandary

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
This is a demonstration of why 'cosmic' is a absolutely terrible choice of a name for a modifier, because Cosmic is not intended to be a power source, cosmic is just "this power breaks a rule that normally applies to powers of this type", but because it sounds like a power source, everyone wants to treat it as if it is one.
It is also a Power Source (G:Powers p26)

Cosmic is, confusely, the keyword for 3 different things :

(1) an enhancement (from +50% to +300%) that remove an inherent power limitation or break a rule.
(1 bis) an enhancement (+300%) that remove the need for rolling.
(1 ter) an enhancement (from +50% to +300%) that bypass defense or disallow active defense

(2) a "godlike/energy of the creation" power source modifier that ignore all and any counter-measure.
Usually +50%, may be tiered. If tiered, lower tiers can be countered/neutralized by higher tiers

(3) one of the variant of modular ability.


Powers p26 seem to imply that 1 (and 1' and 1'') are version of 2, but p101 make the separation more clear, clarify that you don't automatically get (2) from (1) and imply that the price reduction on (1) you get from (2) is optionnal ("often")

Myself, I ignore that p26 "price reduction". It just confuse things more.

(3) is completely unrelated to (1) and (2) except for sharing the same name.

Last edited by Celjabba; 07-21-2019 at 10:41 PM.
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:03 PM   #18
Anthony
 
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Default Re: An interesting quandary

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Originally Posted by Tigrah2k View Post
That sounds like exactly how it's broken down, especially in GCA...
Oh, I wasn't trying to change how things work. Just kill the 'cosmic' name.
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:55 PM   #19
Tigrah2k
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Default Re: An interesting quandary

Ahhh... Lol, you should have suggested an alternative name too. It felt like you were just reiterating what's already there. Text loses far too much context...
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:03 PM   #20
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Default Re: An interesting quandary

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Oh, I wasn't trying to change how things work. Just kill the 'cosmic' name.
Getting 3 separate names would be great...
Perhaps
Enhancement - cosmic:xxx
Power source - ultimate
Modular ability - absolute ?
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