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Old 07-20-2019, 10:40 AM   #1
qchap
 
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Default Fighting on high speed

Hello, I have some questions about rules for melee combat on high speed.
Currently my player disigned a psi-character, who controls electicity (we used Powers book). One of his abilities is 2.5 levels of Enhanced Move, but it works only while wearing special boots and only on rails or something similar. He makes electromagnetic field on his foots and glides on a rail, like those fast japaneese trains (but not so fast, of course).
So, what if he'll punch someone, while gliding at speed of 20? I believe that his hand will suffer too, but how much? And what if he'll use some weapon? I think it may break, and his hand could suffer too. But, again, how much? Would it differ, if he use thrusting (e.g. pike or spear) or swinging attack?
The closest thing is rules for mounted combat - there stated that if speed is 7+, than attack is made at -1 and damage is +1. But I thing that at speed 20 it should be more.
And one more question: should he use Move and Attack maneuver, or should he use rules like in mounted combat, and use just an Attack maneuver?

Sorry if my English is bad. Thank you!

Last edited by qchap; 07-20-2019 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 07-20-2019, 11:18 AM   #2
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Default Re: Fighting on high speed

If hes concentrating on keeping himself properly centered for the maglev effect to work, he cant pay as much attention to his foe, so Move and Attack seems appropriate. (With a horse, youve got a separate entity taking care of most of the physical/mental effort required for movement.)

If hes trying to punch, it would be interesting to calculate what his Slam damage would be at that speed, to himself and to his target.
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Old 07-20-2019, 11:43 AM   #3
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Default Re: Fighting on high speed

At that speed, he's better off using a spear instead, since you can use those to turn your Slam damage from Crushing to Impaling, while avoiding the risk of injuring yourself (unless you miss and go face-first into a wall). Probably gonna have to pay extra for a higher quality spear than average, though.
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Old 07-20-2019, 12:32 PM   #4
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Default Re: Fighting on high speed

The whole thing sounds like variations on Slams. I'd use the rule for slams from DFRPG if you have that - it's less fiddly and overall cleaner and better than the Basic Set's.
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:46 PM   #5
Plane
 
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Default Re: Fighting on high speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by qchap View Post
So, what if he'll punch someone, while gliding at speed of 20? I believe that his hand will suffer too, but how much?
A normal punch is based on Striking ST and not Basic Speed or Basic Move so it would not do more damage unless you bought Striking ST.

Punching normally won't hurt you unless you hit something with DR 3 or more. Then you take 1 damage per 5 damage.

The bigger threat is if someone does Wait then "Stop Thrust" at you. Move 20 would give them +10 to their damage. Unfortunately that doesn't work the other way around.

If you use a Move and Attack Maneuver you can benefit from page 107 of Martial Arts:
If your attack delivers thrusting damage, you may substitute slam damage

It doesn't say anything else about slam rules (running 2 yards pass on a miss, taking damage yourself) so that may not even apply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qchap View Post
And what if he'll use some weapon? I think it may break, and his hand could suffer too. But, again, how much? Would it differ, if he use thrusting (e.g. pike or spear) or swinging attack?
Yes: swinging attacks can't substitute slam damage, only thrusting can do that.

You could use MA112's "Slams with Long Weapons" instead if your swung weapon is reach 2+. This actually is a slam (not a normal attack substituting slam damage) so you would over-run by 2 yards on a miss/dodge, but you get to add your reach as a damage bonus, and the weapon will take the damage instead of you (much like a Shield Rush).

Quote:
Originally Posted by qchap View Post
The closest thing is rules for mounted combat - there stated that if speed is 7+, than attack is made at -1 and damage is +1.
It does seem strange this only applies to mounted combat, but that seems to be how it works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qchap View Post
And one more question: should he use Move and Attack maneuver, or should he use rules like in mounted combat, and use just an Attack maneuver?
The reason a rider only uses Attack is because his mount (horse, etc) made the Move maneuver. If you're the one doing the moving, you need to Move and Attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
The whole thing sounds like variations on Slams. I'd use the rule for slams from DFRPG if you have that - it's less fiddly and overall cleaner and better than the Basic Set's.
It is a little easier to calculate.
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Old 07-20-2019, 04:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Fighting on high speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
The whole thing sounds like variations on Slams. I'd use the rule for slams from DFRPG if you have that - it's less fiddly and overall cleaner and better than the Basic Set's.
That's straight thr damage plus the bonus from the SSR table for their speed.

I'd probably allow it, but also apply the bonus damage right back on him, to the hand or limb that made the attack.
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Old 07-21-2019, 12:36 AM   #7
qchap
 
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Default Re: Fighting on high speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
A normal punch is based on Striking ST and not Basic Speed or Basic Move so it would not do more damage unless you bought Striking ST.

Punching normally won't hurt you unless you hit something with DR 3 or more. Then you take 1 damage per 5 damage.

The bigger threat is if someone does Wait then "Stop Thrust" at you. Move 20 would give them +10 to their damage. Unfortunately that doesn't work the other way around.

If you use a Move and Attack Maneuver you can benefit from page 107 of Martial Arts:
If your attack delivers thrusting damage, you may substitute slam damage

It doesn't say anything else about slam rules (running 2 yards pass on a miss, taking damage yourself) so that may not even apply.


Yes: swinging attacks can't substitute slam damage, only thrusting can do that.

You could use MA112's "Slams with Long Weapons" instead if your swung weapon is reach 2+. This actually is a slam (not a normal attack substituting slam damage) so you would over-run by 2 yards on a miss/dodge, but you get to add your reach as a damage bonus, and the weapon will take the damage instead of you (much like a Shield Rush).


It does seem strange this only applies to mounted combat, but that seems to be how it works.


The reason a rider only uses Attack is because his mount (horse, etc) made the Move maneuver. If you're the one doing the moving, you need to Move and Attack.


It is a little easier to calculate.
Thank you for full rules, it'll help a bit!
But I think it wouldn't be correct to just use all of this rules as is, because it's too unrealistic. I think that a punch at speed 20 should be much more lethal, than an ordinary punch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
That's straight thr damage plus the bonus from the SSR table for their speed.

I'd probably allow it, but also apply the bonus damage right back on him, to the hand or limb that made the attack.
Thank you, it'll almost be my final decision! I didn' know about different slam rules in DFRPG, saparate thanks for this!

So, I'll use it for thrusting attacks. But what should I use for swinging? What if he'll use a sword or an axe? I believe that it should deal more damage too, though not as much, as a thrusting. And it should have drawback too, and I think attack penalties should be applied. Any thoughts for this?
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Old 07-21-2019, 01:00 AM   #8
Nereidalbel
 
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Default Re: Fighting on high speed

When using a weapon for a Slam, the weapon takes the damage (and may break) at the speed this character is going. For such an attack, use the higher value of his Thrust or his Slam damage.

Swing-based weapons, however, are capped at a skill of 9 due to being a Move-And-Attack, so feel free to add damage to compensate for the severely reduced chance to hit.

In both cases, your opponent can still dodge/block/parry the attack.

If he keeps using cheap and easy to obtain spears, it's more than fair to have them end up breaking after only 1-2 good hits, until he starts spending more on quality weapons. Unarmed punches gaining Slam damage at the expense of (potentially) breaking his arm is quite fair, however.
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Old 07-21-2019, 01:38 AM   #9
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Default Re: Fighting on high speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
Swing-based weapons, however, are capped at a skill of 9 due to being a Move-And-Attack, so feel free to add damage to compensate for the severely reduced chance to hit.
Where is it from? How much damage I should add?
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:05 AM   #10
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Default Re: Fighting on high speed

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Originally Posted by qchap View Post
Where is it from? How much damage I should add?
Check the Speed/Range table and add that value. Most reasonable idea.
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