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Old 07-03-2019, 01:13 PM   #31
WingedKagouti
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
So in theory I could have solar panels providing electricity with minimanal issues. Cool. I'm not so sure wind power would be an option due to the really harsh climate in the winter. Winters get really bad (like negatives in double digits bad).
One thing to note is that even a single cm (about 1/3rd of an inch) of snow can almost completely block solar cells from generating energy, they will have to be cleared once it stops snowing before they can start producing energy again. And there's a risk of the panels breaking under the weight if a large amount of snow is left covering them for too long (but probably not a concern in a cinematic setting). The weight from ice formations is iirc more dangerous to the cells and should probably still be a concern in a cinematic setting, but in most locations this hazard would be a rare occurence.

Cloudy weather will also have a major impact on the amount of energy produced, rain will also have an impact even if the sun is shining directly on the cells through the clouds. Extreme circumstances can cut production down to 10-20% of normal during the midday. The lowered production (including that caused by snow) should still be a concern in a cinematic setting.

But cold itself does not noticably reduce the energy produced. The amount of sunny hours is the most important factor, and the number of daylight hours available to a location does not change due to an apocalypse.

You should be able to find averages for energy production for every season in whatever locations the party visits if you're that interested, but for a rough estimate a daily bell curve (with a peak at solar midday) adjusted for season is good enough for most purposes.

As far as the size of an installation goes, a Super Gadgeteered installation could probably provide double or even tripple the power output of a real world modern one. This makes powering a house is quite feasible if there's some sort of power storage system installed. Solar power becomes a lot less attractive without storage, since the cells won't generate power during night time.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:22 PM   #32
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
I sell propane and propane accessories. I hadn't even considered propane. That seems like something that might work for the Saviors of the Heartlands given their dominance of Texas and multiple southern states.
Converting isn't that difficult in a carbureted engine. It is complicated mostly because of a) the prevalence of electronics in newer cars which would need to be bypassed or modified, and b) emissions regulations that would require each vehicle and conversion kit combination to be individually tested.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:24 PM   #33
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

The fun sized individually sealed cans of ethanol free gasoline for weedeaters etc might last significantly longer
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:34 PM   #34
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

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There are tires in tire yards stacked twenty tires high that were made in the 30's. Tires deform and they loose their durability but they don't disintegrate very quickly.
I'm not talking about rubber decomposing back to its component atoms in ten years. I'm merely talking about no longer safe to use for their design purpose as tires.

(Not that adventurers are always prone to do the safe and sensible thing. Especially when they have little choice. Heh heh heh...)

Quote:
However, wrapped in plastic on a rack in a tire shop where they were protected from the elements? I think a modern tire would work just fine after 20 years.
That's what I said. Properly protected, the lifetime is quite high, not implausible for Christopher's timeframe. In a typical residential garage (basement's better) or abandoned tire store with the front window smashed in and the door hanging from its hinges, not so long.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:37 PM   #35
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

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Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 View Post
And I assume some areas are going to build the largest greenhouses they can with available materials. (And no glass isn't needed, but it would be preferred.)
Absolutely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedKagouti View Post
One thing to note is that even a single cm (about 1/3rd of an inch) of snow can almost completely block solar cells from generating energy, they will have to be cleared once it stops snowing before they can start producing energy again. And there's a risk of the panels breaking under the weight if a large amount of snow is left covering them for too long (but probably not a concern in a cinematic setting). The weight from ice formations is iirc more dangerous to the cells and should probably still be a concern in a cinematic setting, but in most locations this hazard would be a rare occurence.

Cloudy weather will also have a major impact on the amount of energy produced, rain will also have an impact even if the sun is shining directly on the cells through the clouds. Extreme circumstances can cut production down to 10-20% of normal during the midday. The lowered production (including that caused by snow) should still be a concern in a cinematic setting.

But cold itself does not noticably reduce the energy produced. The amount of sunny hours is the most important factor, and the number of daylight hours available to a location does not change due to an apocalypse.

You should be able to find averages for energy production for every season in whatever locations the party visits if you're that interested, but for a rough estimate a daily bell curve (with a peak at solar midday) adjusted for season is good enough for most purposes.

As far as the size of an installation goes, a Super Gadgeteered installation could probably provide double or even tripple the power output of a real world modern one. This makes powering a house is quite feasible if there's some sort of power storage system installed. Solar power becomes a lot less attractive without storage, since the cells won't generate power during night time.
This is excellent. Thank you. I'm thinking that some of the people of Free City New York might try lining buildings with solar panels to help meet some of the power needs. Mostly lighting. Everything else is secondary really. There are some scary things in the campaign that like the dark and being able to see them coming is basically staying alive.

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Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
Converting isn't that difficult in a carbureted engine. It is complicated mostly because of a) the prevalence of electronics in newer cars which would need to be bypassed or modified, and b) emissions regulations that would require each vehicle and conversion kit combination to be individually tested.
Noted!

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
The fun sized individually sealed cans of ethanol free gasoline for weedeaters etc might last significantly longer
Not a bad idea. Thanks, Kal.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:58 PM   #36
WingedKagouti
 
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
This is excellent. Thank you. I'm thinking that some of the people of Free City New York might try lining buildings with solar panels to help meet some of the power needs. Mostly lighting. Everything else is secondary really. There are some scary things in the campaign that like the dark and being able to see them coming is basically staying alive.
Just remember that they require either an alternative power source or a way to store electricity if they want light during the night. Storing electricity efficiently is one of the main hurdles that solar energy faces today.

It's not something I'd consider an insurmountable task for a Super Gadgeteer, but it is another component that requires maintenance and could be a target for sabotage.
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Old 07-03-2019, 02:00 PM   #37
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

As far as wind power goes, remember that it involves moving parts, which will significantly reduce lifespan, particularly if in use. Note that many of these things also apply to other mechanical devices, such as bicycles:

Anything actually in use will suffer wear and breakdowns.
Axles, gears, etc, that are exposed to moisture will tend to corrode and lock up.
Liquid lubricants (grease, etc) will congeal and/or sublimate. Graphite and similar solid lubricants might settle but otherwise won't change.
Cables and belts made of plastic, rubber, or organic fibers will become brittle and weaken. Metal belts (like bike chains) won't, though they have the problems above.
Seals (used to hold liquid in or out) will also become brittle and weaken or fail.
Liquids (contained in pipes or tanks) will probably evaporate, leaving residues. If there is an ongoing source of liquid (drains, condensers, etc) becoming clogged is likely.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:02 PM   #38
SimonAce
 
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

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Canned goods and ammunition will last more or less indefinitely if they are not damaged. If out in the elements the cans will rust, get a puncture, etc. and ruin. Ammo in water etc. fares less well than ammo sealed in cans.

Soft goods -- fabric, paper, etc., will be gone in a couple of years in the elements. Some of this stuff may last many years of sealed in containers.
I hate to disagree with SAFisher but in my experience a lot of modern canned goods are designed for cheapness and ease of opening not durability and have a limited shelf life, five to ten or so years max with a few exceptions.

Older style canned goods with heavy well sealed lids , properly stored have been said to last much longer, FDA says many many years but they literally don't make them like they used too in many cases.

In some setting apocalypse prepper can goods might exist, they'd be ultra sterilized and/or irradiated and in heavy stainless steel cans probably good a century or two. Mormon staples (rice, wheat, honey, salt) stored correctly last a very long time, salt and honey indefinitely

Ammo has a lifespan of up to a hundred years, fifty is the top limit for high reliability as people here have noted, it tends to degrade a bit over time. YouTube has quite a few videos on this topic . I'd make bad storage double its effective aging and very careful storage, half it

Largely in a serious apocalypse in modernity, most of the population upwards of 90% will have starved to death or died of disease within a very few years anyway.

Survivors will be well armed communities of farmers , a few raiders here and there , well prepared survivalists with farming experience also in groups and probably many metahumans , especially any with powers that would be useful in a community for taking what they want or who just don't need anything.

This suggest that depending on the cause of the apocalypse there might be a lot of salvage. Decades or centuries worth depending on needs or method of kaboom

In GURPS terms , regular skill rolls for scrounging or a specialized skill (mechanic, auto for car parts, armory for guns) should turn up something. It's a matter of time vs danger I guess

I think After The End 2 has rules that might help and its "mutants and mayhem" 80's style is pretty fitting for a Supers setting as well.
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:13 PM   #39
mr beer
 
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

It's a while since I read it but this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Without_Us went into some detail about how long stuff lasts without us.
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:06 PM   #40
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Default Re: So What IS ruined after an Apocalypse?

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Bullets that are stored in conditions that are merely OK but not perfect may have some reliability issues.
My experience with Mark VII .303 ammo from 1943 is that it works fine if stored in reasonably temperate and dry conditions (i.e. in a drawer in a non-leaky house), as long as you check each round and discard the ones that have become corroded for whatever reason. Lacquered military issue ammo (not all countries do this) lasts very well as long as the coating isn't damaged, even in less than perfect conditions.
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