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Old 03-08-2019, 11:41 AM   #11
newton
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Killjoy

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It seems really strange to me that this trait gives a large penalty to Gambling skill when all the listed uses of that skill don't really have anything to do with pleasure... (" tell you if a game is rigged, identify a fellow gambler in a group of strangers, or “estimate the odds” in any tricky situation", to win a gamble and to spot a cheater).
if anything it should give a bonus for some games because you are harder to read
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Old 03-08-2019, 12:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Killjoy

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I have seen recent psychological research that suggests that the split between cold rationality and emotion is not as sharp as all that. There are people in whom certain braiin centers, the ones that identify "for me" or "against me," are disabled from functioning. They also can't make reasoned decisions. They can spend hours saying, "On one hand, if I do A, this will happen, and on the other hand, if I do B, this other thing will happen." But they can never sum it up as "doing A is better than doing B." So they can't make rational decisions.
Yes, but Killjoy is not a realistic trait, it's made for Cyberpunk. Killjoy, as written, doesn't prevent someone from making decisions and I can't see why it would interfere with a decision that retribution is called for. The idea that human motivations are exclusively motivated by the reward of the pleasure center of the brain lighting up seems exceptionally limiting and to ignore how humans can be motivated differently from rats. A lot of great fiction is about how idea of honour or obligation conflict with the desires of characters, which seems to suggest that personal enjoyment is not the only reason why someone would seek vengeance.

In fact, probably the most famous fictional example of a character with something close to Killjoy in recent fiction would be the villain of one of the more recent Bond movies (this century, at least). Who explicitly could not feel pleasure or pain, but who was motivated to carry out what seemed very much like retributive acts nevertheless.
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Old 03-09-2019, 11:37 AM   #13
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Killjoy

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In fact, probably the most famous fictional example of a character with something close to Killjoy in recent fiction would be the villain of one of the more recent Bond movies (this century, at least). Who explicitly could not feel pleasure or pain, but who was motivated to carry out what seemed very much like retributive acts nevertheless.
Which bond Villain was that?
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Killjoy

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But what stood out to me was that this seems to be the only possibility explored throughout both UT and THS, even for NAIs.
True. AIs with somewhat human-like minds are easier to play, of course, especially in a setting with as much weirdness as THS.

I wonder how many people have played enough THS that they've got thoroughly used to the setting and wanted to experiment with really alien AIs? I suspect the number may be small.
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Killjoy

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Which bond Villain was that?
Victor Zokas, aka Renard, from The World Is Not Enough could not feel pain, but I don't see anything about inability to feel pleasure. He would have High Pain Threshold and Numb in GURPS terms.
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:25 PM   #16
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Killjoy

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Which bond Villain was that?
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Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
Victor Zokas, aka Renard, from The World Is Not Enough could not feel pain, but I don't see anything about inability to feel pleasure. He would have High Pain Threshold and Numb in GURPS terms.
He made a pretty huge deal about his inability to feel, to experience the act of love or even remembering the sensation of pleasure. In essence, he was prepared to give his life to take vengeance on behalf of another, because his life was not worth living without the ability to feel alive.
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Killjoy

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Victor Zokas, aka Renard, from The World Is Not Enough could not feel pain, but I don't see anything about inability to feel pleasure. He would have High Pain Threshold and Numb in GURPS terms.
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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
In fact, probably the most famous fictional example of a character with something close to Killjoy in recent fiction would be the villain of one of the more recent Bond movies (this century, at least). Who explicitly could not feel pleasure or pain, but who was motivated to carry out what seemed very much like retributive acts nevertheless.
The World Is Not Enough came out in 1999
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Killjoy

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The World Is Not Enough came out in 1999
Yes. Rather shocking. All these Bond movies start to blur together in my mind.
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:43 PM   #19
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Killjoy

I'd like to mention anhedonia, a psychiatric symptom. Anhedonia produces reduced wanting as well as reduced enjoyment, reduced learning, flat affect, reduced range of affect, emotional numbing, social withdrawal, cessation of activities usually pleaasureable, psychomotor retardation, and inactivity.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:47 AM   #20
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Default Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Killjoy

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He made a pretty huge deal about his inability to feel, to experience the act of love or even remembering the sensation of pleasure. In essence, he was prepared to give his life to take vengeance on behalf of another, because his life was not worth living without the ability to feel alive.
I'm going purely off of the James Bond wiki, as my memory of Brosnan-Bond other than Goldeneye is basically a single blurred together collection of dumb one-liners and a bikini homage (I think there was a guy with diamonds in his face in there too). It describes it as the loss of most of his sense of touch, smell, and taste. Might he have been waxing poetic over the purely physical sensations he'd never experience again?
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