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Old 02-16-2019, 08:39 PM   #121
naloth
 
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

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Originally Posted by nudj View Post
Hey, guys. I had some correspondence from Kromm on KYOS.
He indicated the following which may be of interest:

1. He definitely agrees with dropping the “per die” on Brawling, Karate, Weapon Master, the throwing damage table, etc...

2. This is tentative, but he was super generous on throwing distance. So if you have ST 40, you use the table with BL 20000 and multiply the throwing multiplier by OLD ST 317. So even though damage is 8d you can throw big cars out of a stadium. This fits with your log damage interpretation, but even if you use linear damage, you can always jack up Striking St cheaply.
1) Altogether or replacing it with a fixed bonus like was suggested earlier in the thread?

2) That's interesting but distance hasn't ever come up as an issue for me.

For example throwing a pretty sizable 4000 lb car:
-ST 30 (Spidey, BL 2,000 lbs) has a ratio of 2 for a x.3 distance, allowing him to hurl it 9 yards. Not bad, and perhaps even more than you would expect from Spidey.
- ST 40 (Thing, BL 20,000 lbs) has a ratio of .2 for a x1.5 distance, allowing him to hurl it 60 yards. That's a luxury car hurled most of the way down a football field - certainly good for combat distance.

Both are far enough for combat throwing and you could further throw on a level or 2 of Super Throw if you want distance that's much higher than your ST.

Under the old system:
-ST 30/120, for BL 2,880 lbs., that's ~36 yards.
-ST 33/320, for BL 20,000 lbs, that's 480 yards.

Those seem just seem awfully high, especially as a starting value. I just don't see Spidey throwing a 2013 Ford Taurus 1/3 of a football field.
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Old 02-16-2019, 08:54 PM   #122
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
1) Altogether or replacing it with a fixed bonus like was suggested earlier in the thread?

2) That's interesting but distance hasn't ever come up as an issue for me.

For example throwing a pretty sizable 4000 lb car:
-ST 30 (Spidey, BL 2,000 lbs) has a ratio of 2 for a x.3 distance, allowing him to hurl it 9 yards. Not bad, and perhaps even more than you would expect from Spidey.
- ST 40 (Thing, BL 20,000 lbs) has a ratio of .2 for a x1.5 distance, allowing him to hurl it 60 yards. That's a luxury car hurled most of the way down a football field - certainly good for combat distance.

Both are far enough for combat throwing and you could further throw on a level or 2 of Super Throw if you want distance that's much higher than your ST.

Under the old system:
-ST 30/120, for BL 2,880 lbs., that's ~36 yards.
-ST 33/320, for BL 20,000 lbs, that's 480 yards.

Those seem just seem awfully high, especially as a starting value. I just don't see Spidey throwing a 2013 Ford Taurus 1/3 of a football field.

1. A fixed bonus like you do

2. I agree that using ST 30/40 (maybe with super throw) instead of 100/317 is fine. Even more so if you are using Linear Damage. Alternatively, one could use Old Striking Strength. So 8d thrust for ST 40 would be equivalent to Old Striking ST 70. Truth is, I think Kromm would revise the whole throwing table, if he ever had time for something that unimportant. He doesn’t like that it is based on the ratio of weight to BL.

Best
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:02 AM   #123
naloth
 
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

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2. I agree that using ST 30/40 (maybe with super throw) instead of 100/317 is fine. Even more so if you are using Linear Damage. Alternatively, one could use Old Striking Strength. So 8d thrust for ST 40 would be equivalent to Old Striking ST 70. Truth is, I think Kromm would revise the whole throwing table, if he ever had time for something that unimportant. He doesn’t like that it is based on the ratio of weight to BL.
Ratios aren't the quickest thing to use during play, so an easier mechanic that didn't also rely on a lookup table would be nice.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:32 AM   #124
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Ratios aren't the quickest thing to use during play, so an easier mechanic that didn't also rely on a lookup table would be nice.
Frankly, I've thought for a while that what the throwing mechanics need is to simply define a range of "thrown object" sizes, and give them their own weapon stats. So you'd have a "tiny thrown object" that did Thr-2, had so much Acc, Range X20/X30, Min ST 3, and a weight comparable to a golf ball, a "small thrown object" with slightly better damage and higher Min ST, but lower range, and so forth. The rule about ST not exceeding three times Min ST could effectively cap things, so a ST 500 superhero doesn't get absolutely stupid results from throwing a golfball. Rather than working out damage and range by calculating a ratio every time someone threw something, you'd just figure out which type of thrown weapon it counted as based on weight, and just use those stats.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:31 AM   #125
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Frankly, I've thought for a while that what the throwing mechanics need is to simply define a range of "thrown object" sizes, and give them their own weapon stats.
I'd rather not fumble with a table if possible. You could probably create a simple formula to calculate the base damage modifier, min ST, and range on the HP/weight of the object pretty easily then generate a sample chart for the math-phobic using that formula.

Perhaps another thread to draw in more ideas?
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:00 PM   #126
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

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Perhaps another thread to draw in more ideas?
Sure, I started one here.
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:20 PM   #127
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

Hopefully my last revision of Superman and Wonder Woman
1) I have used Natural Weapons (Alternate GURPS III) for Superman' Freezing Breath and Wonder Woman' Bracelets Blast (which I considered a projection of her own strength through the bracelets.
2) I have reduced WW power modifier to -5%, While she could be stripped of her powers by the gods, it is nowhere near as crippling as Superman' power modifier.
3) I have boosted WW fighting abilities so she would be a "master" and yes, I caved and used a Wildcard because it was more efficient.
4) I have reduced her DB because of the enhanced combat skill
5) I hae enhanced her Damage Reduction to (3)

I believe they are now better balanced.

Superman V4 [1500]
CHARACTERISTICS [160]
ST 75 DX 13 IQ 13 HT 16
HP 75 Per 15 Will 15 FP 16
Thr Dam 17d-1 BL 30 ktons Speed 8 Move 10

ATTACKS DODGE 12 SUPER BLOCK 12
Punch (14) 17d+1 cr, Parry 11
Heat Vision (14) 10d(5) Burn, Range 100 yards, Cone (2 yards), Selectivity, Super-Parry 11
Freezing Breath (14) 13d-1 cr, Range 20, Cone (5 yrds), Selectivity, Freezing, Double KB, No Wounding, if damage penetrates, target must succeed a HT roll at -1 per 2 points of damage or suffer Paralysis (for living) or become Brittle (for inanimate objects) for (20-HT) minutes, Super-Parry 11

POWERS [1352] • all powers (Kryptonian -10%)
Kryptonian Body ST+60, DX+2, HT+4, Per+2, Speed +0.75, Move+2, Crushing Fist [643]
Kryptonian Toughness Damage Resistance 30; Damage Reduction (2); High Pain Threshold; Very Fit [203]
Kryptonian Physionomy Doesn’t need to Breathe (Oxygen Storage/100); Pressure Support 2; Temperature Support 10; Vacuum Support [37]
Rapid Healing Ability Regeneration (Regular) [23]

Super Flight 50 Flight, Space +30 [108]
Super Reflexes Altered Time Rate 2, Cost Fatigue 2 [140]

KRYPTONIAN POWERS • all Alternate Abilities to Super Reflexes
Heat Vision 10d Burn, Armor Divisor (5), Cone (2 yrds), Selectivity [32]
Freezing Breath Natural Weapon, Crushing Damage, Cone 5 Yards, Selectivity, Double Knockback, Freezing, Hidden, Intangible, Range, Side Effect, Paralysis and Brittle, Switchable, No Wounding, Single, Reduced Damage -1 per die, [6]
Super Speed Altered Time Rate 7 (x30), Super-Speed, Out of Combat, Cost Fatigue 3, Nuisance (Gust of wind) [28]
Quicker Than the Eye Invisibility, Affects Machines, Can be detected by recording devices in slow motion, Can carry Heavy Enc, Switchable, Must be in Movement, Nuisance (Gust of wind) [20]
Hyper Flight 50,000 Enhanced Move (Flight) 10, Travel Time [12]

KRYPTONIAN SUPER SENSES • all Alternate Abilities to X-Ray Vision
Enhanced Time Sense [8]
Super-Hearing Ultrasonic Hearing [1]
Super-Sight Infravision; Microscopic Vision (x10,000), Concentration; Ultravision [7]
Telescopic Vision and Parabolic Hearing Clairsentience, Range 1000 yrds, Cost Fatigue 1 [14]
X-Ray Vision Penetrating Vision 10, Not versus lead, Concentration [70]

ADVANTAGES [29]
Heroic Looks Appearance (Handsome) +2/+4, plus Charisma 2, Superman identity only [21]
The Big Blue Boy Scout Reputation +4, Almost everyone, All the time, Superman identity only [7]
Journalist from the Daily Planet Press Pass [1]

RELATIONSHIPS [3]
Lois Lane Ally (25%) Quite Often 12-, Special skills plus Special Rapport plus Dependent, Rarely 6- [3]
Lana Lang, Jimmy Olsen and the whole gang Dependent Rarely 6- [-10]
Network of Contacts in Daily Planet, MCPD SCU, STAR Labs Contact Groups, Effective Skill 15-, Fairly Often 9-, Usually Reliable [20]
Rogue Gallery Enemy, Rarely 6-, Medium size group [-10]

SKILLS [56]
Acting (IQ/A) 12 [1] Aerobatics (DX/H) 11 [1]
AK: Metropolis (IQ/E) 14 [2] AK: United States (IQ/E) 13 [1]
AK: Earth (IQ/E) 13 [1] Brawling (DX/E) 14 [2]
Computer Ops (IQ/E) 13 [1] Criminology (IQ/A) 12 [1]
Current Affairs (IQ/E) 14 [2] Detect Lies (Per/H) 13 [1]
Diplomacy (IQ/H) 12 [2] Fast Talk (IQ/A) 12 [1]
First Aid (IQ/E) 13 [1] Innate Attack (DX/E) 14 [2]
Law (IQ/H) 11 [1] Leadership (IQ/H) 15 [4]
Navigation (IQ/A) 13 [2] Occup. (Reporter) (IQ/A) 14 [4]
Public Speaking (IQ/A) 15 [2] Research (IQ/A) 14 [4]
Savoir-Faire (IQ/E) 14 [2] Search (Per/A) 14 [1]
Sumo Wrestling (DX/A) 14 [4] Tactics (IQ/H) 11 [1]
Throwing (DX/A) 14 [4] Writing (IQ/A) 15 [8]

DISADVANTAGES [-100]
Code Versus Killing Pacifism; Cannot Kill [-15]
Heroic Values Selfless 12 [-5]
Kryptonian Physiology Requires Special Medical Care. If injured by something his Regeneration can't heal doctors need a small amount of Kryptonite to do simple tasks [-5]
Protective of Innocents Sense of Duty [-15]
Secret Identity, Clark Kent Harassment/relatives may be threatened [-10]
Vulnerability to Magic Wounding x4, Occasional [-40]
Weakness to Kryptonite 1d damage per Minute, rare [-10]

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Old 02-22-2019, 10:25 PM   #128
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

Wonder Woman v3 [1500] SUPERCEDED
CHARACTERISTICS [140]
ST 60 DX 14 IQ 13 HT 15
HP 60 Per 13 Will 15 FP 15
Thr Dam 13d BL 1 ktons Speed 8 Move 8

ATTACKS DODGE 12 SUPER BLOCK 11
Karate Punch (20) 14d cr, Parry 14
Shortsword Swing (21) 14d+2(2) cut, Parry 15
Shortsword Thrust (21) 14d(2) imp, Parry 15
Shield Bash (20) 16d cr, Block 16 (including DB 2 from Shield)
Lasso Grab (22) Binding 40, Range 10
Truthsayer (23 vs Will) Hearing-Based Mind Probe, Target must be binded
Bracelet Blast (20) 17d cr, Range 20, Cone (5 yrds), Select, 2xKB, Takes 2s

POWERS [956] • all powers (Amazon -5%)
Body of Gaia ST+48, DX+2, HT+4, Speed+0.75, Crushing Fist [547]
Toughness of Gaia Damage Resistance 5; Damage Reduction (3); High Pain Threshold; Regeneration (Regular), Very Fit [145]
Amazon Durability Doesn’t Breathe (Oxygen Storage/25); Pressure Support 2; Temperature Support 8; Unaging; Vacuum Support [42]
Speed of Hermes 40 (2,500) Flight +24, Space plus Enhanced Move (Flight) 6, Travel Time [146]
Universal Translator Universal Voice-Based Mind Reading/Telesend [76]

EQUIPMENT [163]
BRACELETS OF VICTORY • Gadget: Can Be Stolen (Forceful), Unique
Bracelets Blast Natural Weapon Crushing Damage, Increased Damage (+2 per die), Ranged, Cone (5 yrds), Selectivity, Double Knockback, Unbreakable, Requires both hands, Takes Extra Time (2s) [21]
Bracelets Deflection Cosmic Defense (Parry) [17]

SHIELD • Gadget: Can Be Stolen (Forceful)
Shield Bash +2d cr, Melee Attack (1), ST-Based [15]
Shield Block Enhanced Block +2 [7]

SHORTSWORD OF HEPHAESTUS
Forged by the Gods Sw Cut and Thr Imp damage, Armor Divisor (2) plus Signature Gear plus Weapon Bond [54]

MAGIC LASSO • Gadget: Can Be Stolen (Quick Contest, Disarm), Unique
Lasso Grab Binding 40, Accurate 2, Reduced Range (10 yrds) [24]
Truthsayer Mind Probe, Follow-Up, Reliable 10, Hearing-Based [26]

ADVANTAGES [156]
Amazon Princess Reputation +3, Almost everyone, All the time; [15]
Amazon Warrior Combat Reflexes, Trained by a Master; Weapon Master (Shortsword, Shield, Lasso) [75]
Ambassador of Themyscira Rank 5; Empathy [40]
Beauty of Aphrodite Appearance (Very Beautiful) +2/+6; Charisma 2 [26]

RELATIONSHIPS [0]
Steve Trevor, Etta Candy and the whole gang Contact Groups, Skill 15-, Rarely 6-, Usually Reliable plus Dependent Rarely 6- [0]
Themyscira Contact Groups, Skill 15-, Rarely 6-, Usually Reliable [10]
Rogue Gallery Enemy, Rarely 6-, Medium size group [-10]

DISADVANTAGES [-32]
Ambassador of Themyscira Duty, Rarely 6- [-2]
Code Versus Killing Pacifism; Cannot Harm Innocents [-10]
Protective of Themyscira Sense of Duty [-10]
Secret Id, Diana Prince Harassment/relatives may be threatened [-10]

SKILLS [117]
Acrobatics (DX/H) 12 [1] Acting (IQ/A) 12 [1]
Administration (IQ/A) 12 [1] Amazon Warrior! (WC) 20 [72]
Animal Handling (IQ/A) 12 [1] Anthropology (IQ/H) 13 [4]
Area Knowledge (IQ/E) 13 [1] Area Knowledge (IQ/E) 13 [1]
Boating (DX/A) 14 [1] Cartography (IQ/A) 12 [1]
Computer Operations (IQ/E) 13 [1] Connoisseur (Arts) (IQ/A) 12 [1]
Current Affairs (IQ/E) 13 [1] Dancing (DX/A) 13 [1]
Detect Lies (IQ/H) 14 [1] Diplomacy (IQ/H) 13 [4]
First Aid (IQ/E) 13 [1] History (IQ/H) 14 [4]
Law (IQ/H) 11 [1] Leadership (IQ/A) 14 [2]
Navigation (IQ/A) 12 [1] Occup. (Curator) (IQ/A) 12 [1]
Philosophy (IQ/H) 11 [1] Politics (IQ/A) 12 [1]
Psychology (IQ/H) 14 [1] Public Speaking (IQ/A) 13 [1]
Research (IQ/A) 13 [2] Riding (DX/A) 13 [1]
Savoir-Faire (IQ/E) 14 [2] Stealth (DX/A) 13 [1]
Theology (IQ/H) 13 [4]

Amazon Warrior! Includes Bow, Fast-Draw, Judo, Karate, Lasso, Shield, Shortsword, Tactics, Throwing, Wrestling and Acrobatics and Riding in combat

Last edited by DreadDomain; 03-01-2019 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 02-23-2019, 10:05 PM   #129
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

First stab at the Fastest Man Alive! Comments welcomed.

Flash V1
CHARACTERISTICS [130]
ST 10 DX 15 IQ 14 HT 13
HP 10 Per 14 Will 14 FP 23
Thr Dam 3d BL 24lbs Speed 10 Move 10

ATTACKS DODGE 14 SUPER BLOCK 11
Punch (15) 3d cr, Parry 12
Lightning Punch (15) 8d cr, Parry 12
Speed Bolt (15) 12d burn, Side-Effect, Stunning, Surge, Range 20
Vacuum (15) 3d Fatigue, AE 8yrds, Respiratory Agent, Suffocation, Melee, if damage penetrates, target must succeed a HT roll at -1 per 2 points of damage or become Dazed for (20-HT) minutes
Wind Blast (15) 10d cr, Cone 5 Yards, Selectivity, 2x KB, No Wounding

POWERS [1378] • all powers Connection to the Speed Force -10%
Speed Force Expert Talent 8 [40]
Speed Force Connection Damage Reduction (5) plus Immunity to Friction, Speed and Acceleration effects plus Enhanced Time Sense plus Regeneration (Very Fast) plus Very Fit plus Striking ST 10 plus DX +3, HT+2, FP+10, Speed +3 [411]
Super-Running 20 Enhanced Move (Running) 1, Second-Nature plus Clinging and Walk on Liquid, while running at high speed [75]
Super-Speed Altered Time Rate 6 [540]

SUPER-SPEED POWERS • all Alternate Abilities to Super-Speed (ATR)
Hyper-Running 1,000,000 Enhanced Move (Running) 15, Second-Nature, Travel Time [108]
Hyper-Speed Altered Time Rate 10 (100), Super-Speed, Out of Combat [100]
Lightning Punches Striking ST +20 [8]
Quicker Than the Eye Invisibility, Affects Machines, Can be detected by recording devices in slow motion, Can carry Heavy Enc, Switchable, Must be in Movement [20]
Speed Bolt 12d burn, Side-Effect, Stunning, Surge, Must be running, Reduced Range (5) [16]
Twister 4d cr, Area-Effect 8 yards, Double Knockback, Link, Mobile 1, Persistent, Side-Effect, Dazed, Melee (C), Not in Vacuum plus Obscure 5 (Vision), Link, Mobile 1, Not in Vacuum [19]
Vacuum 3d Fatigue, Area-Effect 8 yards, Respiratory Agent, Suffocation, Melee (C) [16]
Vibro-Phasing Permeation (Very Common) [8]
Wind Blast 10d cr, Cone 5 Yards, Selectivity, Double Knockback, No Wounding [17]

ADVANTAGES [25]
The Fastest Man Alive! Reputation +3, Almost everyone, All the time; [15]
CSI Officer Police Rank 1 plus Legal Enforcement Powers [10]

SKILLS [50]
CSI! (WC) 14 [24] Fast Talk (IQ/A) 14 [2]
Speed Force! (WC) 15 [24]

CSI! Includes Administration (Police Force), Area Knowledge (Central City and Keystone), Biology, Chemistry, Criminology, Current Affairs (Crimes), First-Aid, Forensics, Interrogation, Law (Criminal), Observation, Pharmacy, Poisons, Psychology (Criminals), Research, Search, Sociology

Speed Force! Includes Acrobatics (Running), Area Knowledge (World, Timestream, Multiverse), Brawling, Fast-Draw, Navigation, Physics (Speed Force), Running, Throwing, Wrestling

RELATIONSHIPS [-2]
Iris, CCPD, Star Labs Contact Groups, Skill 15-, Often 9-, Usually Reliable plus Dependent Rarely 6- [0]
Jay, Wally, Jesse Contact Groups, Skill 15-, Often 9-, Usually Reliable plus Dependent Rarely 6- [8]
Rogue Gallery Enemy, Rarely 6-, Medium size group [-10]

DISADVANTAGES [-88]
CSI Officer Curious 12-, Duty, Often 9- [-10]
Code Versus Killing Pacifism; Cannot Kill [-15]
It’s all my Fault Charitable 12- plus Guilt Complex plus Selfless 9- plus Sense of Duty plus Workaholic [-43]
Secret Id, Barry Allen Harassment/relatives may be threatened [-10]
Super-Fast Metabolism Increased Consumption 1 [-10]

Question, How would his Speed Force Talent interact with his Speed Force Wildcard? Would it add to it? Does it mean he would attack at 23 and not 15?

Flash could take 7 maneuvers in a second like disarming or saving hostages or punching villains for 3d cr damage.
Between Super-Running and Super-Speed, he can run 500km/h without breaking a sweat.
Alternatively, he can:
• Run at 3,600,000 km/h
• Complete any non-combat task 500 times faster (ATR and Speed Force Talent)
• Concentrate his super-fast punches for more damage (Lightning Punches)
• Run so fast he will remain unnoticed
• Concentrate an electrical bolt coming from the Speed Force
• Use his speed to create a twister, a vacuum or a wind blast
• Vibrate through matters
Barry has dedicated his life to two field of expertise, solving crimes(CSI!) and understanding and manipulating the Speed Force (Speed Force!)
Although he has other challenges, what drives him is his belief that It Is All His Fault.

Last edited by DreadDomain; 02-24-2019 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:12 AM   #130
naloth
 
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Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

I don't really have much to say about Superman. The write-up looks like a pretty good representation of the post-crisis or earlier (Reeves) movie version. Hitting a playable point level requires that he's better than every one else at everything.

This version of WW is better. As a GM I'd probably require conditions for how/when she could be stripped of her powers, but that's more a campaign background type thing. Because of how Binding works in GURPS (permanent, chipped away), I would probably change it to an Affliction (Daze? Paralysis?). If you're going to keep it as Binding, no layering and resisting vs ST only probably should be added.

The Flash: he's not in the same league as WW or Superman when it comes to fighting. The Flash has a fraction of the effective HP (Superman is effectively HP150, WW is effectively HP180, while this Flash is 50) and his regeneration is too slow for combat (needs to be bumped to at least Instant). He does have a pretty good Dodge (~14), but only a step 2 for dodging area attacks (the others have area attacks). It looks like he has Striking ST 20 (always) and can switch to Striking ST40 by sacrificing his ATR, which is a fraction of what Superman does multiple times per turn. The Flash isn't as damaging, but I would give him more attacks that incapacitate in various ways to differentiate him.

I've always done his super zipping around as a variant of Warp, since he doesn't (can't) use momentum for combat. You avoided that by making his combat speed ATR and his non-combat speed "Travel Time," but I'm not sure it's worth the extra points.

The Flash normally carries a lot more weight with him while running than ST10 would allow.

Twister should probably be an Emanation (he spins like a top in place?) while Vacuum seems more like an Affliction that causes suffocation than a fatigue attack.

Speed Force Talent 8 seems excessive. 5 point talents that add to all your super powers really should be capped at 4, especially if you're letting it exceed the Move and Attack skill cap (suggested for speedsters).

I'd use Move! instead of Speed Force! unless you're going to have a slew of speedsters with that wildcard. It covers most of the same skills, and basically whatever you need to get from point A to point B. Throwing and Wrestling seem a bit out of place among the other skills listed in Speed Force.
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