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Old 03-15-2015, 04:14 AM   #1
Cheomesh
 
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Default Interpreting a grappling move

I was going through a LINE manual for a project I've got going on and saw that a lot of the "takedowns" were in this method:

http://s29.postimg.org/ov6mjjbtj/Sweep_Or_Such.png

Would you interpret this to be considered a form of Judo Throw, Takedown, or Sweep?

Throw just doesn't seem right for whatever reason (since this trip can never put them anywhere other than in your hex). Takedown might be the winner, but that's a skill-neutral action (you can do that with base attributes). Sweep makes it sound like you're doing it at range primarily.

I suspect it's "any of the above" really, but I could be wrong.

Thanks,

M.
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Old 03-15-2015, 08:32 AM   #2
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Interpreting a grappling move

Figure 1: The attacker has established a grapple on the foe's right arm and torso. It also looks like he's got the defender in a compromised position. In TG that would be the equivalent of achieving a side position.

Figure 2: I believe the attacker is attempting to intimidate any that might be watching by disco dancing.

Figure 3: The attacker spends Control Points to force a posture change, dropping the defender to face up.
Edit: Force Posture Change is TG-speak for a takedown

Figure 4: The attacker maintains his grapple on the arm.
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Old 03-15-2015, 09:58 AM   #3
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Default Re: Interpreting a grappling move

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Originally Posted by Cheomesh View Post
Would you interpret this to be considered a form of Judo Throw, Takedown, or Sweep?
By the rules in Basic, it's clearly a Sweep (of the "sweeping kick" variety). Even if the setup implies they started grappled and whatnot. That dude is probably rolling against Karate - 3 to perform it.
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Old 03-15-2015, 10:17 AM   #4
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Default Re: Interpreting a grappling move

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Originally Posted by kenclary View Post
By the rules in Basic, it's clearly a Sweep (of the "sweeping kick" variety). Even if the setup implies they started grappled and whatnot. That dude is probably rolling against Karate - 3 to perform it.
And to Ken's point - there are many variants of all of these techniques, and mechanically, many are only mildly distinguishable. Sweeps don't have to start with a grapple. In my TG takedown table, I note that a sweep doesn't allow you to retain CP (and therefore retain a grapple), but that's just my interpretation of a very broad set of moves.
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Old 03-15-2015, 11:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: Interpreting a grappling move

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenclary View Post
By the rules in Basic, it's clearly a Sweep (of the "sweeping kick" variety). Even if the setup implies they started grappled and whatnot. That dude is probably rolling against Karate - 3 to perform it.
That was my first assumption, but I wanted to be sure; cheers!

Douglas, I've been meaning to check out TG, but I'll admit I find the grappling system in Basic/MA intricate enough for my (burnt out) brains.

Thanks!

M.
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Old 03-15-2015, 12:01 PM   #6
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Figure 2: I believe the attacker is attempting to intimidate any that might be watching by disco dancing.
No, not disco. Seems more like the signature move of Rockette stylists, especially intimidating when combined with Shield Wall and Teamwork perks. Disco practictioners instead train in the High-line Eye Gouge Technique, especially useful in DF if you get attacked by striges or all those flying familiars.
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Old 03-15-2015, 01:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: Interpreting a grappling move

I think you could also just call it a Takedown in game terms. It starts from a grapple, and ends up with the defender on the ground next to the attacker. Just ignore the fact that it involves a high, sweeping kick physically.

The advantages of doing it as a takedown are: there's no 'to hit roll' at -3 before the contest, the defender doesn't get a chance to make a -5 acrobatics roll to avoid falling, and if the defender has a grapple on the attacker it is lost.

The disadvantage is that if the attacker loses the quick contest, he/she ends up on the ground, with no grapple on the defender.

If you had a high Karate skill and no grappling skill higher than your opponent, using a sweep might be a better choice
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Old 03-15-2015, 07:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: Interpreting a grappling move

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Figure 2: I believe the attacker is attempting to intimidate any that might be watching by disco dancing.
ROTFLMAO!

I have no better explanation of that picture, and now your version is forever embedded in my mind. I will hear the song "Staying Alive" in the back of my mind whenever I see that or a similar image.
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Old 03-15-2015, 08:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Interpreting a grappling move

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Originally Posted by DangerousThing View Post
ROTFLMAO!

I have no better explanation of that picture, and now your version is forever embedded in my mind. I will hear the song "Staying Alive" in the back of my mind whenever I see that or a similar image.
In truth, I know what it's saying - when sweeping a leg for a takedown, it helps when your foe is resisting or on balance to really slam your leg into theirs. It's not necessary to do an axe-kick move like that one, but it drives the point home that you do that HARD in order to destablize your opponent.

I'm likely going to turn that series of images into a blog post, combined with a bit of blather on my Takedown Table, on the top of p. 19 of TG.
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Old 03-15-2015, 10:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Interpreting a grappling move

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
In truth, I know what it's saying - when sweeping a leg for a takedown, it helps when your foe is resisting or on balance to really slam your leg into theirs. It's not necessary to do an axe-kick move like that one, but it drives the point home that you do that HARD in order to destablize your opponent.

I'm likely going to turn that series of images into a blog post, combined with a bit of blather on my Takedown Table, on the top of p. 19 of TG.
Yes, it's obvious from the third image what is supposed to happen in reality. I just think your quip was better in the humerous sense.
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