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Old 12-17-2015, 09:14 PM   #1
lachimba
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Default Changing techniques to just 1pt leveled perks

Is there any reason why just simplifying techniques to 1pt leveled perks isn't better on every single level (other than charging an extra pt for hard techniques)?

Less text, easier to explain, fairer cost etc
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Old 12-17-2015, 09:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: Changing techniques to just 1pt leveled perks

Most fundamentally, Perks are not skills. They're a kind of Advantage. Having a separate name for some Advantages gets silly when they can cost more than 1 point. Why call something a 5-point Perk instead of a 5-point Advantage? There's also the connotation that Perks exist to override or break rules, which Techniques don't.

More practically, I don't see any explanatory advantage, unless you're also proposing to change the rules for Techniques. In the "Perk" description, you'd still have to point out that each Perk (Technique (Skill (feat))) is associated with a unique feat that you perform with a particular skill, that those feats have penalties, that the Perk is levelled only so as to buy off those penalties, except that many such Perks are limited in how close to the base skill they can get... and so on. And that's what take one page of rules. The length of description of Techniques isn't because they aren't classed as Perks; it's because there's a lot of detail in how they work.

You could replace the Technique cost table -- but then, you could also describe the costs of Techniques exactly as you would the proposed Perk. (One point per +1 bought off, plus an extra point for a Hard Technique, describes the Technique cost table progression exactly.)

How do you see replacing all instances of "Technique" with "Perk" making the explanation have less text or making it easier to explain? "Fairer cost" I don't understand, since a levelled Perk would cost the same. What did you have in mind as the new, changed cost?
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Old 12-17-2015, 09:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: Changing techniques to just 1pt leveled perks

In the one recorded instance of a Technique being turned into a Perk, Off-Hand Weapon Training, it was a deal where "for 5 points we can either raise the penalty for using the off-hand with one weapon, or spend that on Ambidexterity and buy off the penalty for all weapons." In that case, turning it from a Technique to a regular Perk that bought off the penalties for a single weapon kinda made sense, as it was about 1/5 the utility of Ambidexterity for most people.

Turning a technique into a leveled Perk doesn't do much, IMO, as it's just reskinning the flavor without actually making changes. Most other proposed cases of turning a Technique into a Perk have been "for one point, you buy off the full penalty involved". This may be closer to what you're thinking of, generally speaking.
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:13 PM   #4
lachimba
 
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Default Re: Changing techniques to just 1pt leveled perks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
How do you see replacing all instances of "Technique" with "Perk" making the explanation have less text or making it easier to explain? "Fairer cost" I don't understand, since a levelled Perk would cost the same. What did you have in mind as the new, changed cost?

I'll go with one point like a levelled perk to be clearer


Sample conversion with GM and player (by messaging or text)

Player I'd like my PC to be good at kicking with karate and elbow strikes (like I am in real life).

GM it's the same cost to raise one level of karate at a maximum 4 pts don't do it.

Player ok what about kicking and my special kick to head?

GM you pay an extra point twice (for the first level of each technique) for that privilege versus taking it as a RAW signature move perk.

Player: so these techniques mostly just cost one point a level except for the first level which costs two. And that's back the front from skill progression which costs less at the start and more at the end. It will never be efficient to take one level in two hard techniques with that cost and while a perk like signature move exists (not to mention any other one point perks that might have a similar effect .

Couldn't we just say techniques cost one point a level and wherever there is a reference to hard or average techniques or the table with pricing just ignore it.

That way I'll be encouraged to take more techniques (which should cost less than DX or raising the actual skill) and we can differentiate between even PCs with similar combat skills by having potentially up to three (but realistically probably still one or two) techniques per skill and not being point inefficient?

GM: wow you've simplified the rules and saved hundreds of words of text across rulebooks (a couple words with every technique) with a very minor rule change (I wish that the authors had gone with that). That will be useful when I do things like single skill magic or Path Book Magic etc

Last edited by lachimba; 12-17-2015 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:50 PM   #5
scc
 
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Default Re: Changing techniques to just 1pt leveled perks

Techniques already ARE pretty much 1pt leveled Perks. OK the first level for a Hard one costs 2ptm but otherwise
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: Changing techniques to just 1pt leveled perks

Quote:
Originally Posted by scc View Post
Techniques already ARE pretty much 1pt leveled Perks. OK the first level for a Hard one costs 2ptm but otherwise
indeed. All I'm seeing is a reskinning of the flavor, not an actual change in the pricing. If it works to help explain it, okay, go with it. But don't tout it as something different.
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Old 12-18-2015, 12:20 AM   #7
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Default Re: Changing techniques to just 1pt leveled perks

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
indeed. All I'm seeing is a reskinning of the flavor, not an actual change in the pricing. If it works to help explain it, okay, go with it. But don't tout it as something different.
It saves one point.

That's exactly the difference I'm talking about. It makes it easier to justify lots of techniques at low levels.

You know what adding or subtracting a skill from a talent, moving a skill between easy to very hard 'might' save about a point too and it's still a difference.

I can also tell you've never been told to get a word count down. Its far too late now, but this would have removed a table and associated paragraphs from the basic set and the words Hard and Easy etc from every single technique write up from 2004 to the last book with techniques that's more words for what you actually want (and in a book with something like 30 techniques probably more than enough for a whole extra one)

I can imagine the two of you in a supermarket 'oh all it is is $1 instead of $2 for the first item then exactly the same. Don't tout it as something different!'

Last edited by lachimba; 12-18-2015 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 12-18-2015, 12:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: Changing techniques to just 1pt leveled perks

Quote:
Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
It saves one point.

That's exactly the difference I'm talking about. It makes it easier to justify lots of techniques at low levels.

You know what adding or subtracting a skill from a talent, moving a skill between easy to very hard 'might' save about a point too and it's still a difference.

I can also tell you've never been told to get a word count down. Its far too late now, but this would have removed a table and associated paragraphs from the basic set and the words Hard and Easy etc from every single technique write up from 2004 to the last book with techniques that's more words for what you actually want (and in a book with something like 30 techniques probably more than enough for a whole extra one)

I can imagine the two of you in a supermarket 'oh all it is is $1 instead of $2 for the first item then exactly the same. Don't tout it as something different!'
No, it does not save one point. Techniques are already 1/level.

Hard Techniques are 2/level. Maybe what you mean is to just remove Hard Techniques from the game entirely, and shift all of them onto normal Techniques.

(And 1/level Techniques are different from Perks, since there's a limit to the number of Perks you're allowed to take and there is no limit to the number of Techniques or number of levels of Techniques)
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Old 12-18-2015, 01:23 AM   #9
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Changing techniques to just 1pt leveled perks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Most fundamentally, Perks are not skills. They're a kind of Advantage. Having a separate name for some Advantages gets silly when they can cost more than 1 point. Why call something a 5-point Perk instead of a 5-point Advantage? There's also the connotation that Perks exist to override or break rules, which Techniques don't.
GURPS, or at least many very prominent GURPS writers, also seem to want to impose limits on how many Perks characters can have, whereas no such limits are ever proposed for Advantages or points in them, nor for points in Skills.

This indicates that those writers must either feel that Perks are (often) overpowered, tending to give at least slightly more bang than their 1-point cost warrants, or else that too many Perks on any character's sheet complicates the game as each is - at least to some extent - a special case that must always be kept in mind during relevant situations.

Techniques don't have that problem, in in fact similar to points in Advantages and Skills I've never seen any indication that anyone has any desire to impose limits on number of Techniques on a sheet or the amount of points in them.
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Old 12-18-2015, 02:46 AM   #10
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Changing techniques to just 1pt leveled perks

The way I see it, the greatest benefit of switching to Perks is to get rid of the flat [1/level] cost, as in many cases it's not worth it, making buying raw skill preferable. Between two styles of Boxing, one is normally discouraged from fleshing out/differentiating boxers by style, and is encouraged to do it by one or at most two Techniques. I don't like that. I want each fighter to have an advantage in using a half-dozen or even dozen techniques of Style A as compared to a Style B fighter using the same Skill.
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