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Old 05-30-2009, 03:52 PM   #1
Gudiomen
 
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Default Perks, can we have too many?

Basic, Martial Arts, Power-Ups 2, Magical Styles, Psionic Powers... we have so many Perks it's starting to make me feel dizzy. What's worse, they're spread over several books.

Can we have too many? Are perks the GURPS version of prestige classes (something obscure and munchkiny that everyone wants)?

My players haven't sprung a bunch on me yet, actually they're simple players with clean characters, I'm the one who's likely to spring this on my GM. I'm not doing it a lot and already I'm getting the "are you sure you're not trying to pull one on me?" look.

This isn't criticism per se, if anything a variety of choices to pick from reduce the number of perks players try to invent outright. It's just something that's been nagging me and I wondered what the comunity thought...
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Old 05-30-2009, 03:55 PM   #2
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Default Re: Perks, can we have too many?

Too many options? Um, nope.
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Old 05-30-2009, 03:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: Perks, can we have too many?

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Too many options? Um, nope.
Heh, brutal and true. Good answer.

Still, it's a lot of special rules and rules exceptions to remember.
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Old 05-30-2009, 04:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: Perks, can we have too many?

It boils down to how many you want to integrate, I suppose. It's best if players know their PC concepts first, then see if there are any mechanical benefits based on that they want for sure.
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Old 05-31-2009, 02:59 AM   #5
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Perks, can we have too many?

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It boils down to how many you want to integrate, I suppose. It's best if players know their PC concepts first, then see if there are any mechanical benefits based on that they want for sure.
That's probably a good idea.

I'll always defend a player's freedom to start a character concept with a single high-cost Advantage, and then build on top of that, but if a player starts with a very low-cost trait, e.g. a Perk, and takes it from there, then there's a fair chance that said low-cost trait should be a high-cost trait.
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: Perks, can we have too many?

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Still, it's a lot of special rules and rules exceptions to remember.
Let them remember their sweet little exceptions. You worry about their disadvantages. I've found that to be a pretty good division of labor: A player is naturally going to try to remember what gives him a tactical edge, and you're the one who's going to get the most mileage out of his disads anyway.

(There are some exceptions to this rule: Noob dramatists are going to naturally fixate on all the kewl angst that their disads give them, even being disappointed if they turn out to be "free points," and they won't know all the details of their nitty gritty little powers. Still, the division is a good way for them to learn, and you should help players like that design their characters in broad, general ways, with things like Wild Card skills rather than Perks anyway)
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Old 05-31-2009, 03:02 AM   #7
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Perks, can we have too many?

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(There are some exceptions to this rule: Noob dramatists are going to naturally fixate on all the kewl angst that their disads give them, even being disappointed if they turn out to be "free points," and they won't know all the details of their nitty gritty little powers. Still, the division is a good way for them to learn, and you should help players like that design their characters in broad, general ways, with things like Wild Card skills rather than Perks anyway)
There is also the issue of passive advantages.

I won't accept having to remind the GM that my character has Voice or Charisma, or Danger Sense, because there's a risk that doing so makes me look greedy (even though I'm only demanding to get what I've paid for). If he can't keep my character's capabilitistic individuality in mind without needing to be reminded, he's unfit.
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Old 05-31-2009, 06:16 AM   #8
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Default Re: Perks, can we have too many?

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There is also the issue of passive advantages.

I won't accept having to remind the GM that my character has Voice or Charisma, or Danger Sense, because there's a risk that doing so makes me look greedy (even though I'm only demanding to get what I've paid for). If he can't keep my character's capabilitistic individuality in mind without needing to be reminded, he's unfit.
Or, maybe he is a little busy running the villians, the NPCs, the world setting, the atmosphere, interpreting rules, familiars, aliens, robots, etc. and maybe, he might feel that it wouldn't be too much trouble for the player to keep track of a few aspects of his/her own character to take a little of the burden off him.

just a thought....
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Last edited by Pagan; 05-31-2009 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:44 AM   #9
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Default Re: Perks, can we have too many?

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
There is also the issue of passive advantages.

I won't accept having to remind the GM that my character has Voice or Charisma, or Danger Sense, because there's a risk that doing so makes me look greedy (even though I'm only demanding to get what I've paid for). If he can't keep my character's capabilitistic individuality in mind without needing to be reminded, he's unfit.
I suppose that depends on the culture of the group and GM. I certainly don't mind when a player reminds me that they have Danger Sense. Though I will admit I often note down things like Danger Sense and Perception levels so I can roll them secretly without the player knowing.

Appearance and Voice tend to be easy to remember, as players tend to emphasize this in their descriptions.
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Old 06-01-2009, 04:27 AM   #10
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Default Re: Perks, can we have too many?

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
There is also the issue of passive advantages.

I won't accept having to remind the GM that my character has Voice or Charisma, or Danger Sense, because there's a risk that doing so makes me look greedy (even though I'm only demanding to get what I've paid for). If he can't keep my character's capabilitistic individuality in mind without needing to be reminded, he's unfit.
The group I play among would be paralyzed if we were held to this standard as GMs.

I think we see ourselves as engaging in a collaborative effort to make the game events feel true in relation to the input plot points -- ie. it doesn't matter who points out that Jimbob's Acute Hearing should give him a bonus, as long as afterword you don't end up asking 'Hey why didn't Jimbob hear that'. That last eventuality is a failure of both GM and players together IMO.
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