[Fantasy/DF/Magic] Magical Item Collection Bonus Cost?

[PseudoFenton]

In keeping with the classic trope, I'm trying to make a set of items that provide additional bonuses depending on if other items from the set are worn/wielded. However I'm having trouble working out just how to do this and still be able to work out a price (ie, not handwaving it).

Bonuses could be in the form of adding new enchantments and/or scaling existing ones (so replacing technically) depending on the number of items from the set are worn/wielded or per specific items.

So to give an example a set of items could have these enchantments with these conditional statements
(x is the number of items within the set)
Helm: Fortify x.
Greaves: Fortify x, If also wearing Breastplate - Lighten (50%).
Breastplate: Fortify x, If also wearing Greaves - Lighten (50%), If also wearing Helm - Deflect +x.
Gauntlets: Fortify x, If wearing at least 2 other items - Burning Touch & Power 1.

This creates a pretty large headache for pricing due to the huge variance of potential cost, and my inability in finding any rules which might cover this. Can anyone help me out with this?

[Bruno]

GURPS actually already has "set bonuses" for armor - armor enchanted piecemeal works even if you just wear the left shinguard (although the bonus applies only to your left shin in that case) but armor enchanted as a set is not only cheaper than to enchant each piece individually, it also only gives you the bonus if all pieces are worn.

That only gives you two levels of "set" of course (individual, complete set). But that's a start!

[PseudoFenton]

Originally Posted by Bruno

That only gives you two levels of "set" of course (individual, complete set). But that's a start!

Unfortunately this only allows a single enchantment to be applied to the entire set at once. Whereas I'm looking for quite complex conditional logic to apply additional enchantments (and technically remove some to replace them with more potent enchantments). Which produce that exponential power growth from obtaining more items from within that set as often seen in this style of magical items (as probably more commonly seen in MMOs these days).

[panton41]

Considering how many of these types of things (in MMOs) are supposed to be unique and usually only available through quests, I would just declare it working, ignore how to construct it using the rules in Magic and don't allow PCs to buy them (but they can find them while adventuring).

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 6 - 40 Artifacts might be an place to start for ideas of how to do it.

[PseudoFenton]

Originally Posted by ciaran_skye

Considering how many of these types of things (in MMOs) are supposed to be unique and usually only available through quests, I would just declare it working, ignore how to construct it using the rules in Magic and don't allow PCs to buy them (but they can find them while adventuring).

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 6 - 40 Artifacts might be an place to start for ideas of how to do it.

I had no intention of allowing PCs to buy them, and yes they will indeed be unique Artifact grade items, however I want some guidelines as to how and when these items should be obtainable as per cost. I may not prescribe to the notion of Wealth By Level, but cost is a good indicator of how much gruel to put you're PCs though.

Simple hard and fast estimates will do, I'm not looking for perfectly balanced equations (unless they already exist that is). If there really isn't anything out there though obviously I'll just wing it, but it does seem a useful thing to have rules for anyway. As there are many classical items which would use them such as twinned weapons which are more powerful together etc, some of which do make sense for PC buying (in this case you lose out if even one weapon becomes disarmed).

[panton41]

Originally Posted by PseudoFenton

I had no intention of allowing PCs to buy them, and yes they will indeed be unique Artifact grade items, however I want some guidelines as to how and when these items should be obtainable as per cost. I may not prescribe to the notion of Wealth By Level, but cost is a good indicator of how much gruel to put you're PCs though.

Simple hard and fast estimates will do, I'm not looking for perfectly balanced equations (unless they already exist that is). If there really isn't anything out there though obviously I'll just wing it, but it does seem a useful thing to have rules for anyway. As there are many classical items which would use them such as twinned weapons which are more powerful together etc, some of which do make sense for PC buying (in this case you lose out if even one weapon becomes disarmed).

How about design them as a single-finished piece using Magic (assuming you still want to use that) then dividing it evenly based on the the percent the unenchanted cost of the items provides to the unenchanted set (or the percent of coverage it provides). That's assuming the pieces are found or handed out piecemeal.

[PseudoFenton]

Okay, giving it some late night thinking, some of the conditional statements should be easier than others. I should really split them up into categories, using the example above which I tailored to include all the types of conditions I could think of we have:

(x is the number of items within the set)
Helm: Fortify x.
Greaves: Fortify x, If also wearing Breastplate - Lighten (50%).
Breastplate: Fortify x, If also wearing Greaves - Lighten (50%), If also wearing Helm - Deflect +x.
Gauntlets: Fortify x, If wearing at least 2 other items - Burning Touch & Power 1.
Bracer: Fortify x, If also wearing Gauntlets - Climbing +4

• Numeric Replacement. Ie, at 1 Item add Enchantment 1, at 2 Items remove Enchantment 1 and add Enchantment 2, etc. This would be "Fortify x" from above.
• Specific Item/s Conditional: This is a case of having to have one or more other specific items, which then grants the enchantment onto this other specific item. This would be "If wearing Gauntlets - Climbing +4" from above.
• Specific Item Collection Conditional: This is a mutual enchantment bestowed to all items in a specific list when all items are present. Note this does not have to include all items within the set, but it differs from the none collection conditional as the enchantment is not just on one item, which should vary the cost. This would be "If also wearing Greaves - Lighten (50%)/If also wearing Breastplate - Lighten (50%)" from above.
• Non-specific Item Count Conditional: This simply requires a set number of any item from within the full set to be present. This would be "If wearing at least 2 other items - Burning Touch & Power 1" from above.

Things like "If also wearing Helm - Deflect +x" are a combination of 'Specific Item/s Conditional' and 'Numeric Replacement', which makes it trickier but I'm not sure if it qualifies as its own Limitation.

Okay, cost wise, 'Specific Item Collection Conditional' shouldn't provide any real reduction of cost as otherwise it would be an easy point crock. To steal some other GURPS logic, perhaps the enchantment could cost 90% per other item involved to represent the nuisance effect of it. So as the example above with 2 items, each item would be enchanted at 90% cost, but if it required 3 items the enchantment would be at 81% cost.

'Specific Item/s Conditional' is similar but more disadvantaging in the fact that only one item bears the bonus, but it also raises the cost of the other item as obtaining it becomes more important if by possessing it you could have other boons. As such the enchanted item is enchanted at 80% - 10% per other item required cost (to a minimum of 20% cost), but each other item is increased by 5% of the enchanting cost. Basically its a 20% reduction due to the limitation of requiring all the items, and then half of the rest is shared over the other items.
This does mean that a collection of over 8 items becomes more expensive to enchant like this overall, but who really is going to make a collection that large? As 8 items is easily a full suit of armour and a weapon.

'Non-specific Item Count Conditional' similar to the above, but more potent. So 90% cost, -10% for each item it requires and +10% for each other item not required but in the set of potential items (to a minimum of 50%). The cost increase of each other item isn't taken into account here, but the potential discount is also significantly lower as this is a much more potent conditional.
As an example, as above the Gauntlets have "If wearing at least 2 other items - Burning Touch & Power 1" in a set of 5 items. There are 4 potential items that could be used, 2 of which are needed, so it would cost 90% - 20% +20% = 90% cost.

'Numeric Replacement' ... this is where I'm stumped, it wont be used often in theory, but the swapping out of enchantments is a tricky one. Clearly it should be costed on the difference in each enchantment at each stage... but... I have no idea of how to go about doing this one.

Sorry for the mega post, but what do people think?

[BaHalus]

An enchantment that only works in a set is a single enchantment for the whole set, isn't it? An enchantment for each piece is one enchantment per piece.

So, I would just combine both things, making the mentioned price proportion for the set enchantments in the individual pieces.

I think it would be simple and fair.

[PseudoFenton]

Originally Posted by BaHalus

An enchantment that only works in a set is a single enchantment for the whole set, isn't it? An enchantment for each piece is one enchantment per piece.

So, I would just combine both things, making the mentioned price proportion for the set enchantments in the individual pieces.

I think it would be simple and fair.

This does make a lot of sense, however what is the discount for enchanting a "set" which is not a full set of armour? I know that a full set of armour costs less, but only functions when all are present - but what if I want a weapon/shield included, or I just want a Boots and Greaves combo? If these enchants are at full price (at the per part costs) then you have a liability on those enchantments without any balance in cost.

Equally this doesn't help with enchantments which replace themselves with better ones as you acquire more items in the set, nor with items which just need a set number of non-specific items from within a set to function. In theory I could just say 50% of cost on the item with the enchant and the other 50% divided between all other potential items for the latter (after any possible discount this might afford), and then vary the 50% depending on the number of required items (so 6 out of 7 is less costly on the main item than 2 out of 7)... but I still need to work out what is fair for that.

Thanks for the help so far though!

[BaHalus]

Well, the discount is in the full cost vs divided cost.

Quantity dependent ones are more complicated. Is like an accessibility limitation. The power that is disabled too.