Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-15-2011, 04:17 AM   #1
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
Default [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?

Greetings, all!

I wonder, what traits and/or trait-combinations are sufficient for a person to qualify as a Super-Soldier (+200%) for purposes of Mass Combat TS calculations? TL is nominally around 9*, but I'll gladly listen to opinions on other TLs, or even supernatural traits (but it would be nice to have supernatural and technological templates separated to avoid confusion, and am still primarily interested in tech variants).

* == with limited superscience, tech path is Slow Gengineering (as per BIO), but chimerization and biomods are available as replacements for some gene-mods.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 07:01 AM   #2
Sam Baughn
 
Sam Baughn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and some other bits.
Default Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?

I think the bare minimum to qualify as 'super-soldiers' would be something like +2 ST, +1 DX, +1 HT, Combat Reflexes, Fit and High Pain Threshold.

Here's a TL9 Genetic Upgrade very loosely based on the 'Variant 13' from Richard Morgan's Black Man (the Variant 13 would probably lose the sleep modifications and the temperature tolerance and add a bonus to Will, a few levels of Charisma, Loner and Proud).

Delta
93 Points

Attribute Modifiers: ST +2 [20]; DX +1 [20]; HT +1 [10].
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: FP +3 [9]; Perception +1 [5].
Advantages: Combat Reflexes [15]; Fearlessness 5 [10]; Fit [5]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Less Sleep 1 [2]; Rapid Healing [5]; Temperature Tolerance (Heat) 1 [1].
Perks: Deep Sleeper [1].
Disadvantages: Bad Temper (12) [-10]; Callous [-5]; Stubborness [-5].
Availability: $118,000. LC 2.
Sam Baughn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 10:51 AM   #3
Allu
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?

The Orion Genetic Upgrade template description in (Biotech page 67) specifically states that they make good super soldiers.

If you want more flavor you could compare the lists of Behavioral Modifications (Biotech page 43), and desirable and acceptable disadvantages (SEALS in Vietnam page 15-16).

Last edited by Allu; 06-15-2011 at 10:53 AM. Reason: Grammatical nitpick.
Allu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 06:53 PM   #4
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?

To be three times as effective as a 'standard' unit, you need 3x the offensive capacity and 3x the survivability. The biggest single survivability factor would likely be combat reflexes (makes you less likely to die in an ambush), followed by enhanced perception (makes you less likely to get ambushed); health makes you less likely to get killed but don't affect becoming a casualty in the short term so shouldn't much affect TS. Offensively, stealth and accuracy matter most, and ST is handy to let you carry more gear. I'd want a minimum of +2 DX, +2 Per, and combat reflexes.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2011, 06:06 AM   #5
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
Default Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?

Thank you for your templates.

I checked them out, and here's my observations: taking the best modifiers from each of the posts (including Orion), we get:

ST +2
DX+2
Per +2
HT+1

FP+3 (in addition to HT+, results in total FP 14)

Combat Reflexes
High Pain Threshold
Less Sleep 1 [2];
Rapid Healing [5];
Temperature Tolerance (Heat) 1 [1].
Deep Sleeper [1];
Fearlessness 1 [2].

Now, for comparison, the 'default' Navy SEAL template includes:
ST+2
DX+3
IQ+3 (which is as good as Per+3/Fearlessness 3!)
HT+2

Fit
and at least 20 points from Desirable Advantages (Breath-Holding, Combat Reflexes, Daredevil, Fearlessness, Flexibility, Gunslinger, Hard to Kill, Hard to Subdue, High Pain Threshold, Luck, Perfect Balance, Reputation, Single-Minded, Temperature Tolerance, Very Fit, Weapon Bond).

Seems to me that a SEAL who has both HPT and CR is better than the proposed Super-Soldier.

Seems weird, since AFAIK Seals don't qualify for the Super-Soldier TS multiplier - merely for Élite TS addition.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper

Last edited by vicky_molokh; 06-18-2011 at 08:05 AM. Reason: typo
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2011, 06:37 AM   #6
SonofJohn
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Default Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?

Traveller Answerin would be an example too.

When normal soldier is 50 pts a super soldier would only need 150 pts or? Its also difficult to distinct "cyber/genetic" super soldiers from psychosocial like Spartans. Many of the proposed traits could also achieved by trainning, like combat reflexes, strenght and high pain treshold. Disadvantages like slave mentality or bloodlust maybe a factor too...

The most conservative assumption would be in my oppinion to say to be qualified as an super soldier you would need 100 pts in Advantages wich cant be achieved by training and are related to combat, maybe not even survival after combat and foraging cause TS represents actual combat strenght and not "hey marv over there lost his head but we can stitch him back together so he can fight tomorow", otherwise being nearly unkillable could provide a significant psychological edge. Robot troops would be also completely diffrent pair of shoes ....
SonofJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2011, 07:21 AM   #7
Anders Gabrielsson
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Default Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?

To me that 180-point(!) Navy SEAL template looks way over-the-top for a realistic game, especially since it includes Gunslinger, Hard to Kill etc.
Anders Gabrielsson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2011, 07:28 AM   #8
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
Default Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Gabrielsson View Post
To me that 180-point(!) Navy SEAL template looks way over-the-top for a realistic game, especially since it includes Gunslinger, Hard to Kill etc.
So sayeth SEALs in Viet Nam. Though I guess the traits are there for GMs to pick their own level of realism by disallowing Cinematic traits.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2011, 09:34 AM   #9
Sam Baughn
 
Sam Baughn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and some other bits.
Default Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?

Super-soldiers with 'average' training should be roughly equivalent to normal humans with 'elite' training, going by Mass Combat.

Also, I'm not sure that the SEAL templates in SEALs in Vietnam are supposed to represent average, realistic SEALs. As I recall, the default for character templates in GURPS is the 'heroic' version suitable for a Player Character.
Sam Baughn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2011, 10:14 AM   #10
lexington
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Thank you for your templates.

I checked them out, and here's my observations: taking the best modifiers from each of the posts (including Orion), we get:

ST +2
DX+2
Per +2
HT+1

FP+3 (in addition to HT+, results in total FP 14)

Combat Reflexes
High Pain Threshold
Less Sleep 1 [2];
Rapid Healing [5];
Temperature Tolerance (Heat) 1 [1].
Deep Sleeper [1];
Fearlessness 1 [2].

Now, for comparison, the 'default' Navy SEAL template includes:
ST+2
DX+3
IQ+3 (which is as good as Per+3/Fearlessness 3!)
HT+2

Fit
and at least 20 points from Desirable Advantages (Breath-Holding, Combat Reflexes, Daredevil, Fearlessness, Flexibility, Gunslinger, Hard to Kill, Hard to Subdue, High Pain Threshold, Luck, Perfect Balance, Reputation, Single-Minded, Temperature Tolerance, Very Fit, Weapon Bond).

Seems to me that a SEAL who has both HPT and CR is better than the proposed Super-Soldier.

Seems weird, since AFAIK Seals don't qualify for the Super-Soldier TS multiplier - merely for Elité TS addition.
The Orion and the like are racial templates, aren't they? Being a SEAL is a combination of selecting for outliers in the population and then giving them specific training. To get an Orion soldier you should probably stack the Orion on top of something like a SEAL.
lexington is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bio-tech, mass combat, super-soldier, supersoldiers, ultra-tech

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.