06-15-2011, 04:17 AM | #1 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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[Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?
Greetings, all!
I wonder, what traits and/or trait-combinations are sufficient for a person to qualify as a Super-Soldier (+200%) for purposes of Mass Combat TS calculations? TL is nominally around 9*, but I'll gladly listen to opinions on other TLs, or even supernatural traits (but it would be nice to have supernatural and technological templates separated to avoid confusion, and am still primarily interested in tech variants). * == with limited superscience, tech path is Slow Gengineering (as per BIO), but chimerization and biomods are available as replacements for some gene-mods. |
06-15-2011, 07:01 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and some other bits.
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Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?
I think the bare minimum to qualify as 'super-soldiers' would be something like +2 ST, +1 DX, +1 HT, Combat Reflexes, Fit and High Pain Threshold.
Here's a TL9 Genetic Upgrade very loosely based on the 'Variant 13' from Richard Morgan's Black Man (the Variant 13 would probably lose the sleep modifications and the temperature tolerance and add a bonus to Will, a few levels of Charisma, Loner and Proud). Delta 93 Points Attribute Modifiers: ST +2 [20]; DX +1 [20]; HT +1 [10]. Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: FP +3 [9]; Perception +1 [5]. Advantages: Combat Reflexes [15]; Fearlessness 5 [10]; Fit [5]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Less Sleep 1 [2]; Rapid Healing [5]; Temperature Tolerance (Heat) 1 [1]. Perks: Deep Sleeper [1]. Disadvantages: Bad Temper (12) [-10]; Callous [-5]; Stubborness [-5]. Availability: $118,000. LC 2. |
06-15-2011, 10:51 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?
The Orion Genetic Upgrade template description in (Biotech page 67) specifically states that they make good super soldiers.
If you want more flavor you could compare the lists of Behavioral Modifications (Biotech page 43), and desirable and acceptable disadvantages (SEALS in Vietnam page 15-16). Last edited by Allu; 06-15-2011 at 10:53 AM. Reason: Grammatical nitpick. |
06-15-2011, 06:53 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?
To be three times as effective as a 'standard' unit, you need 3x the offensive capacity and 3x the survivability. The biggest single survivability factor would likely be combat reflexes (makes you less likely to die in an ambush), followed by enhanced perception (makes you less likely to get ambushed); health makes you less likely to get killed but don't affect becoming a casualty in the short term so shouldn't much affect TS. Offensively, stealth and accuracy matter most, and ST is handy to let you carry more gear. I'd want a minimum of +2 DX, +2 Per, and combat reflexes.
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06-16-2011, 06:06 AM | #5 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?
Thank you for your templates.
I checked them out, and here's my observations: taking the best modifiers from each of the posts (including Orion), we get: ST +2 DX+2 Per +2 HT+1 FP+3 (in addition to HT+, results in total FP 14) Combat Reflexes High Pain Threshold Less Sleep 1 [2]; Rapid Healing [5]; Temperature Tolerance (Heat) 1 [1]. Deep Sleeper [1]; Fearlessness 1 [2]. Now, for comparison, the 'default' Navy SEAL template includes: ST+2 DX+3 IQ+3 (which is as good as Per+3/Fearlessness 3!) HT+2 Fit and at least 20 points from Desirable Advantages (Breath-Holding, Combat Reflexes, Daredevil, Fearlessness, Flexibility, Gunslinger, Hard to Kill, Hard to Subdue, High Pain Threshold, Luck, Perfect Balance, Reputation, Single-Minded, Temperature Tolerance, Very Fit, Weapon Bond). Seems to me that a SEAL who has both HPT and CR is better than the proposed Super-Soldier. Seems weird, since AFAIK Seals don't qualify for the Super-Soldier TS multiplier - merely for Élite TS addition. Last edited by vicky_molokh; 06-18-2011 at 08:05 AM. Reason: typo |
06-16-2011, 06:37 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?
Traveller Answerin would be an example too.
When normal soldier is 50 pts a super soldier would only need 150 pts or? Its also difficult to distinct "cyber/genetic" super soldiers from psychosocial like Spartans. Many of the proposed traits could also achieved by trainning, like combat reflexes, strenght and high pain treshold. Disadvantages like slave mentality or bloodlust maybe a factor too... The most conservative assumption would be in my oppinion to say to be qualified as an super soldier you would need 100 pts in Advantages wich cant be achieved by training and are related to combat, maybe not even survival after combat and foraging cause TS represents actual combat strenght and not "hey marv over there lost his head but we can stitch him back together so he can fight tomorow", otherwise being nearly unkillable could provide a significant psychological edge. Robot troops would be also completely diffrent pair of shoes .... |
06-16-2011, 07:21 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?
To me that 180-point(!) Navy SEAL template looks way over-the-top for a realistic game, especially since it includes Gunslinger, Hard to Kill etc.
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06-16-2011, 07:28 AM | #8 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?
So sayeth SEALs in Viet Nam. Though I guess the traits are there for GMs to pick their own level of realism by disallowing Cinematic traits.
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06-16-2011, 09:34 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and some other bits.
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Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?
Super-soldiers with 'average' training should be roughly equivalent to normal humans with 'elite' training, going by Mass Combat.
Also, I'm not sure that the SEAL templates in SEALs in Vietnam are supposed to represent average, realistic SEALs. As I recall, the default for character templates in GURPS is the 'heroic' version suitable for a Player Character. |
06-16-2011, 10:14 AM | #10 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Re: [Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?
Quote:
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Tags |
bio-tech, mass combat, super-soldier, supersoldiers, ultra-tech |
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