GURPS Space campaign setting - Page 4

~~combatmedic~~ · 10-18-2007, 07:05 PM

[QUOTE]dscheidt originally typed-

I get all of these from my jump system. Jumps are through wormholes; each wormhole leads from 1 to 4 other wormholes, with no guarantee of symmetric jumps (In other words, being able to jump from A to B doesn't mean you can go from B to A. You usually can, but not always.) [/QUOTE

Interesting. I like the idea of the points not always being symmetric.

Greystar · 10-19-2007, 10:57 AM

Personally I'd go with the Jump points Idea for the game concept you are working with... I'd base it off of B5's jump gates or maybe even StarGate style of thing. If you go with B5 style then small ships can't make their own jump point but would have to use ones pre-built or dock with a larger ship that can make it's own Jump Points. As far as planetary maneuvers would be a little easier, probably make it use some kind of Ion thrust drive that recieves its energy from a powerplant of some sort and would need to be recharged after a while (unless you can get recharged from some other source (fuel scoop off of stellar matter (or a sun) or from Solar (slow but can get you where you need to go)))

PS) I program as a hobby so I tend to have excess uses of ().

Bandii · 10-19-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greystar

Personally I'd go with the Jump points Idea for the game concept you are working with... I'd base it off of B5's jump gates or maybe even StarGate style of thing. If you go with B5 style then small ships can't make their own jump point but would have to use ones pre-built or dock with a larger ship that can make it's own Jump Points.

You could even combine the Jump gates with the Repeater Station idea; the Jump gates could have a "Telegraph" office on board.

-Mike

~~combatmedic~~ · 10-21-2007, 10:14 AM

Okay, I've got it now. Rather than FTL being the big breakthrough, it was actually improved astrogation that really got things going. If you want a [very rough] historical analogy think of Henry the Navigator, Columbus, etc.

Ships travel through hyperspace to take shortcuts past vast distances in real space. Large bodies in realspace create huge gravity storms in hyperpsace at the corresponding location. This means ships normally exit hyperpsace and complete their journey in realspace, rather than risk destruction by approaching too closely. Etheric currents and flows in hyperspace greatly complicate navigation. It is easy for a ship to drift off course and become lost. Trips take measurable time, but are still much faster than the equivalent journey through realspace.

Navigable routes exist through hyperspace, called hyper-routes. These can be accessed at nodes [ setting equivalent to special, naturally occuring jump points]. Hyper-routes are not of uniform length, predicatablity, or speed. Additionally, some apparently shift over time[ like a river slowly changing course].

The first crude and unreliable hyperdrive was invented several generations back [TL9], but its use was severely limited by the primitive navigation tools of the day. In the last two generations, more reliable means of discovering nodes and charting hyper-routes have been invented. This has allowed the current expansion of trade, building up of empires, etc.

The limitations and great risks of early FTL flight meant that STL colony ships were the norm for a couple of hundred years.

FTL commo is by courier ship along hyper-routes, FTL telegraphy[faster than ships, but energy hog, limited range= need for many repeater stations over stellar distances, and low bandwith]. I may include Fred's idea about plasma semaphore as a new ''message in a bottle'' technology.

How does all this sound?

Anaraxes · 10-21-2007, 01:52 PM

The navigation sounds somewhat reminiscent of the travel in David Weber's Honor Harrington books (minus the nodes; Weber's ships enter and depart hyperspace anywhere at the proper distance from the star). Can ships fight in hyperspace?

Quote:

The limitations and great risks of early FTL flight meant that STL colony ships were the norm for a couple of hundred years.

How fast is STL tech? .1 c? So there are no colonies settled by STL further than 20 ly, and that only if they're the earliest colonies. Everyone else would (or could) have found an FTL ship waiting for their arrival.

~~combatmedic~~ · 10-21-2007, 06:53 PM

Anarexes-

Yeah, I thought of that. I rather like the idea of STL colonists finding out their destination sytem has already been colonized. Nice source of conflict. Of course, you have to find a connecting hyper route to safely travel to another system. Many routes are very circuitous. Many have only recently been charted. Some worlds are off the shipping lanes, or were until recent discoveries opened ''new'' hyper-routes. So it's quite possible that some fairly distant worlds were indeed settled entirely by STL ships- but they are centuries behind the core systems in terms of technology. After all, they just got off the boat not too many years ago[ relativity is like that].

Does this make sense?

Anaraxes · 10-21-2007, 07:09 PM

Makes sense to me.

Discovering a new FTL route to an STL colony will be interesting. Merchants with all sorts of advanced products to sell; companies that want to sell the products but not the principles; colonists that want them, versus those that don't want to be dependent on imports they can't make.

Then you can throw in the apparently pastoral colony which actually discovered alien superscience / psi / sufficiently advanced technology that's not recognizable as such, such that the simple trinkets they trade are actually infecting the galaxy to pave the way for... what? A takeover? Transformation of society?

~~combatmedic~~ · 10-21-2007, 09:02 PM

Yes, exactly. I still need to work out the particulars, but now I have a fairly good idea of how FTL travel and commo work.

I need to get a solid idea of what hyperspace is like, and what you can do there. I'm thinking ships probably can fight and hide there, just as Fred Brackin suggested. Maybe sensors are limited or less reliable there, so battles often take place at closer range than they would in real space?

Anaraxes · 10-21-2007, 11:36 PM

The hyper-nodes and routes help constrain the traffic so that there's a reasonable chance of finding another ship. I like this idea, because a pure warp or hyperspace where you can enter or leave a system from any direction leaves an impossibly huge area to defend.

Realspace sensors may well be completely irrelevant in hyper. (What's the point of detecting a reflected emag photon with your radar when the target moves faster than the reflection? And that's assuming said photon even exists in hyperspace.) So perhaps you need special hyperspace sensors. Hyperspace can be as noisy as you like, right up to Mutara-class nebula confusing. Perhaps the routes are only roughly stable, with lots of small-scale shifts and variations, which obscure the much smaller hyper-signature of a ship's hyperdrive.

It might be on the space-operatic side. But then, hard science ship combat is hard to make interesting, since if you're realistic enough about it, most weapons simply won't work over any kind of range, relative velocity effects often swamp most reasonable warhead technology, and realistic maneuver comes down to pretty easily calculated accelerations and delta-v. (Oh, look, the ship's been wounded, and life support is failing. Nope, no one happens to be close enough to reach you in time. Or, why yes, that other ship can reach you 37.4 minutes before you run out of power. A chase to the 100-diameter limit is similarly dry.) Your group may like doing the math, but there's not so much drama there. Some randomness will be a good thing, I think.

~~combatmedic~~ · 10-22-2007, 12:03 AM

Again, I appreciate the advice. I do want this setting to contain space opera elements, and hyperspace is a good place to include such things as space ship battles at close range. It makes no sense in real space, but it might be the primary option in hyperpsace.

In other news, I just subscribed to the JTAS. While this setting isn't Traveller, it draws on many of the same literary sources. I'm sure I can adapt some of the JTAS/Gurps Traveller stuff to my own setting. Not the iconic stuff like the Third Imperium, Aslan, Vargr, Hivers, etc. No, I'm talking about little things like deck plans, minor races, individual planets, equipment, etc.

10-18-2007, 07:05 PM	#31
~~combatmedic~~ Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: a crooked, creaky manse built on a blasted heath	Re: GURPS Space campaign setting [QUOTE]dscheidt originally typed- I get all of these from my jump system. Jumps are through wormholes; each wormhole leads from 1 to 4 other wormholes, with no guarantee of symmetric jumps (In other words, being able to jump from A to B doesn't mean you can go from B to A. You usually can, but not always.) [/QUOTE Interesting. I like the idea of the points not always being symmetric.

10-19-2007, 10:57 AM	#32
Greystar Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: North Central IL, USA	Re: GURPS Space campaign setting Personally I'd go with the Jump points Idea for the game concept you are working with... I'd base it off of B5's jump gates or maybe even StarGate style of thing. If you go with B5 style then small ships can't make their own jump point but would have to use ones pre-built or dock with a larger ship that can make it's own Jump Points. As far as planetary maneuvers would be a little easier, probably make it use some kind of Ion thrust drive that recieves its energy from a powerplant of some sort and would need to be recharged after a while (unless you can get recharged from some other source (fuel scoop off of stellar matter (or a sun) or from Solar (slow but can get you where you need to go))) PS) I program as a hobby so I tend to have excess uses of ().

10-21-2007, 10:14 AM	#34
~~combatmedic~~ Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: a crooked, creaky manse built on a blasted heath	Re: GURPS Space campaign setting Okay, I've got it now. Rather than FTL being the big breakthrough, it was actually improved astrogation that really got things going. If you want a [very rough] historical analogy think of Henry the Navigator, Columbus, etc. Ships travel through hyperspace to take shortcuts past vast distances in real space. Large bodies in realspace create huge gravity storms in hyperpsace at the corresponding location. This means ships normally exit hyperpsace and complete their journey in realspace, rather than risk destruction by approaching too closely. Etheric currents and flows in hyperspace greatly complicate navigation. It is easy for a ship to drift off course and become lost. Trips take measurable time, but are still much faster than the equivalent journey through realspace. Navigable routes exist through hyperspace, called hyper-routes. These can be accessed at nodes [ setting equivalent to special, naturally occuring jump points]. Hyper-routes are not of uniform length, predicatablity, or speed. Additionally, some apparently shift over time[ like a river slowly changing course]. The first crude and unreliable hyperdrive was invented several generations back [TL9], but its use was severely limited by the primitive navigation tools of the day. In the last two generations, more reliable means of discovering nodes and charting hyper-routes have been invented. This has allowed the current expansion of trade, building up of empires, etc. The limitations and great risks of early FTL flight meant that STL colony ships were the norm for a couple of hundred years. FTL commo is by courier ship along hyper-routes, FTL telegraphy[faster than ships, but energy hog, limited range= need for many repeater stations over stellar distances, and low bandwith]. I may include Fred's idea about plasma semaphore as a new ''message in a bottle'' technology. How does all this sound? Last edited by combatmedic; 10-21-2007 at 07:15 PM.

10-21-2007, 06:53 PM	#36
~~combatmedic~~ Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: a crooked, creaky manse built on a blasted heath	Re: GURPS Space campaign setting Anarexes- Yeah, I thought of that. I rather like the idea of STL colonists finding out their destination sytem has already been colonized. Nice source of conflict. Of course, you have to find a connecting hyper route to safely travel to another system. Many routes are very circuitous. Many have only recently been charted. Some worlds are off the shipping lanes, or were until recent discoveries opened ''new'' hyper-routes. So it's quite possible that some fairly distant worlds were indeed settled entirely by STL ships- but they are centuries behind the core systems in terms of technology. After all, they just got off the boat not too many years ago[ relativity is like that]. Does this make sense?

10-21-2007, 07:09 PM	#37
Anaraxes Join Date: Sep 2007	Re: GURPS Space campaign setting Makes sense to me. Discovering a new FTL route to an STL colony will be interesting. Merchants with all sorts of advanced products to sell; companies that want to sell the products but not the principles; colonists that want them, versus those that don't want to be dependent on imports they can't make. Then you can throw in the apparently pastoral colony which actually discovered alien superscience / psi / sufficiently advanced technology that's not recognizable as such, such that the simple trinkets they trade are actually infecting the galaxy to pave the way for... what? A takeover? Transformation of society?

10-21-2007, 09:02 PM	#38
~~combatmedic~~ Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: a crooked, creaky manse built on a blasted heath	Re: GURPS Space campaign setting Yes, exactly. I still need to work out the particulars, but now I have a fairly good idea of how FTL travel and commo work. I need to get a solid idea of what hyperspace is like, and what you can do there. I'm thinking ships probably can fight and hide there, just as Fred Brackin suggested. Maybe sensors are limited or less reliable there, so battles often take place at closer range than they would in real space?

10-21-2007, 11:36 PM	#39
Anaraxes Join Date: Sep 2007	Re: GURPS Space campaign setting The hyper-nodes and routes help constrain the traffic so that there's a reasonable chance of finding another ship. I like this idea, because a pure warp or hyperspace where you can enter or leave a system from any direction leaves an impossibly huge area to defend. Realspace sensors may well be completely irrelevant in hyper. (What's the point of detecting a reflected emag photon with your radar when the target moves faster than the reflection? And that's assuming said photon even exists in hyperspace.) So perhaps you need special hyperspace sensors. Hyperspace can be as noisy as you like, right up to Mutara-class nebula confusing. Perhaps the routes are only roughly stable, with lots of small-scale shifts and variations, which obscure the much smaller hyper-signature of a ship's hyperdrive. It might be on the space-operatic side. But then, hard science ship combat is hard to make interesting, since if you're realistic enough about it, most weapons simply won't work over any kind of range, relative velocity effects often swamp most reasonable warhead technology, and realistic maneuver comes down to pretty easily calculated accelerations and delta-v. (Oh, look, the ship's been wounded, and life support is failing. Nope, no one happens to be close enough to reach you in time. Or, why yes, that other ship can reach you 37.4 minutes before you run out of power. A chase to the 100-diameter limit is similarly dry.) Your group may like doing the math, but there's not so much drama there. Some randomness will be a good thing, I think. Last edited by Anaraxes; 10-22-2007 at 12:05 PM.

10-22-2007, 12:03 AM	#40
~~combatmedic~~ Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: a crooked, creaky manse built on a blasted heath	Re: GURPS Space campaign setting Again, I appreciate the advice. I do want this setting to contain space opera elements, and hyperspace is a good place to include such things as space ship battles at close range. It makes no sense in real space, but it might be the primary option in hyperpsace. In other news, I just subscribed to the JTAS. While this setting isn't Traveller, it draws on many of the same literary sources. I'm sure I can adapt some of the JTAS/Gurps Traveller stuff to my own setting. Not the iconic stuff like the Third Imperium, Aslan, Vargr, Hivers, etc. No, I'm talking about little things like deck plans, minor races, individual planets, equipment, etc.