Future support for TFT

[robertsconley]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

TFT falls into a traditional concept of roleplaying game design, where physical activities and events are mostly very well described by rules but social interactions, emotional states, etc. are mostly handled by roleplaying (plus a rule or three for reactions, leadership, recruiting henchmen, etc.)

I agree with you but I going to defend the other side of the argument here a little bit.

Rules are tools, plus campaigns including fantasy campaign potentially could have the player doing all kinds of things. So if something like Fate or GURPS Social Engineering help a referee deal with complex social conflict great! Just as long one doesn't think they are required or necessary to handle something like complex social conflict in a campaign.

In the long run it may be good for some interested author to come up with a TFT Social Engineering as it will help somebody run that aspect of a TFT campaign in a way that is consistent with the rest of TFT.

But for now I vote for let see what we can do with TFT RAW first.

[Shadekeep]

I'm itching to see what the Limited Publishing License looks like. It's going to be a long Winter waiting for that to come. ^_^

It would be great if there were provision within that agreement for print-on-demand (POD) services as well, in case some GMs want a printed booklet to go along with the PDF.

[larsdangly]

I'm sympathetic to those arguments; my house rules include lots of talents relevant to social activities, a set of talents that support something kind of like Pendragon's Inspiration rules, and rules for madness. I could even see limited forms of these things in the published core rules (note the optional rules for extra character traits in the original ITL). But I think this stuff will be better presented as tack-on house rules. We'll have to see whether anything like this can be part of the W23 publishing scheme.

[robertsconley]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

I'm sympathetic to those arguments; my house rules include lots of talents relevant to social activities, a set of talents that support something kind of like Pendragon's Inspiration rules, and rules for madness. I could even see limited forms of these things in the published core rules (note the optional rules for extra character traits in the original ITL). But I think this stuff will be better presented as tack-on house rules. We'll have to see whether anything like this can be part of the W23 publishing scheme.

In the fullness of time and SJ Games loosing up the license, I think people would be interest in a supplement from you presenting how you run TFT campaign include house rules. Kinda like my Majestic Wilderlands supplement but with your take on things and focusing on the things you think are important.

As a general comment, one thing about today's publishing environment especially at the level we are talking here, people place a premium on authentic content. That is content written in the voice of author reflecting their experience in playing or refereeing campaigns.

As long as the author come across saying "This is how I run things." as opposed as "This how you ought to run things" the stuff sells. More than one would expect it would.

[zot]

I'm not saying TFT HAS to have social mechanics in order to be "legitimate", I'm just saying that right now it doesn't have any rules to support nonphysical struggles.

It's hard to make a case that a complete absence of rules constitutes support.

You can certainly play CoC-style stories with TFT, but to deal with those nonphysical struggles which (ought to) happen in those stories, you end up either just subjectively deciding outcomes, as GM, or winging it with ad hoc mechanics which might have the appearance of objectivity but which I say is actually subjective.

It's nice when the players can use commonly agreed upon mechanics to decide their fate. Yes, the GM ultimately stacks the deck when designing any NPC (or when designing a system to produce NPCs) but at least when the players are able to use known rules, they can feel like A) it's actually a game and B) it's not just all up to the GM's whim.

So lacking a system for nonphysical struggles doesn't delegitimize TFT, it just makes nonphysical struggles subjective and not part of the "game", since there are no rules. It feels to me like a missed opportunity, I guess, and a less satisfying player experience.

Who wants to plead their case before a judge-like GM whenever they need to change someone's mind in the game or convince someone of something? I've played D&D with unreasonable DM's and social conflicts rules would have gone a long way to help with those situations.

[larsdangly]

Well, in fairness it has the following social interaction rules:

- Reaction roll
- Charisma, Sex Appeal and Courtly Graces talents for general interaction
- Business Sense, Priest, Bard, Diplomacy for more specific interactions
- New Followers (and monster followers) for recruiting
- Tactics, Strategy and Captain for combat leadership
- Optional Personality traits (p. 7 of ITL)

So, this isn't exactly like a blow by blow debating system or Pendragon's virtues and vices, but it also isn't nothing. You can do a lot with these if you want to.

[zot]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

Well, in fairness it has the following social interaction rules:

- Reaction roll
- Charisma, Sex Appeal and Courtly Graces talents for general interaction
- Business Sense, Priest, Bard, Diplomacy for more specific interactions
- New Followers (and monster followers) for recruiting
- Tactics, Strategy and Captain for combat leadership
- Optional Personality traits (p. 7 of ITL)

So, this isn't exactly like a blow by blow debating system or Pendragon's virtues and vices, but it also isn't nothing. You can do a lot with these if you want to.

Yes, that's what I meant by ad hoc rules creation. Unfortunately, reaction rolls are about all you have, aside from the odd IQ saving rolll (which I think gives unreasonable advantages to wizards). Like I said earlier, I have made several suggestions to help with these which amount to very few rules. Hopefully there will be something besides just reaction rolls and IQ rolls...

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

Well, in fairness it has the following social interaction rules:

- Reaction roll
- Charisma, Sex Appeal and Courtly Graces talents for general interaction
- Business Sense, Priest, Bard, Diplomacy for more specific interactions
- New Followers (and monster followers) for recruiting
- Tactics, Strategy and Captain for combat leadership
- Optional Personality traits (p. 7 of ITL)

So, this isn't exactly like a blow by blow debating system or Pendragon's virtues and vices, but it also isn't nothing. You can do a lot with these if you want to.

Hi all, larsdangly.
I note that SJ has added Streetwise and dropped New Followers and Monster Followers.

Warm regards, Rick.

[larsdangly]

I wasn't aware that New Followers and Monster Followers were being 86'd. Are there talents that effectively replace them? Recruitment of followers is a pretty important concept to just X out of a roleplaying game...

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

I wasn't aware that New Followers and Monster Followers were being 86'd. Are there talents that effectively replace them? Recruitment of followers is a pretty important concept to just X out of a roleplaying game...

That idea was being *discussed*, and it was discussed at length, but unless I missed the word on the boards *from Steve Jackson*, I do not recall any such official announcement being made that he was indeed dropping these critical talents for certain. Maybe someone knows something different, but that's my recollection (which may be faulty).

JK