The Draka Supersoldiers in GURPS

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

The way everything seems to work out not just in their favor but in the best possible way, and even sometimes better than seems possible, in the earlier books doesn't help. Also, the Draka do implement a number of social and technical reforms that the author personally advocated, which makes "human history went as nearly perfectly badly as possible" hyperbole.

"Social and technical reforms...?"

Cite?

(Not being a jerk, here, honestly. I like Stirling's work -- clearly -- and I'd like to see anything he's written along these lines.)

[cptbutton]

Nitpicking: The author is SM Stirling. There is an SF writer named Sterling, but his stuff is rather different.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

"Social and technical reforms...?"

Cite?

Stuff like the inherently more secure Harvard architecture, greater movement on civil liberties and sex equality (for citizens only, of course). IIRC, Gwen has some choice words on her first impression of our New York and how it embodies short-sighted planning if it was planned at all.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

Right. That's why Sterling said what he said. There's no way the Draka could survive, in any realistic alt-history. They'd have been destroyed, pretty quickly.

So, to get them to exist, at all, he had to come up with some pretty unrealistic contrivances, and Sterling said as much.

I was simply arguing that the statement quoted is still 'optimistic.' Even everything going as badly as possible for the last 250 years, you'd get nothing like them. That's why I never got past the first book. It's slightly less plausible than the genetically modified WWI airwhales in Scott Westerfield's Leviathan. The contortions of history just killed my suspension of disbelief..

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

Right. That's why Sterling said what he said. There's no way the Draka could survive, in any realistic alt-history. They'd have been destroyed, pretty quickly.

So, to get them to exist, at all, he had to come up with some pretty unrealistic contrivances, and Sterling said as much.

The issue of course, is why he wanted them to exist. He created awesome villains of awesomeness and then just let them win (in their universe) forever. There was actually a Sailor Moon/Drakon fan fic crossover where Gwen explicitly loses because she's no longer in the universe where "the Draka win" is a law of the universe like gravity.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

Nitpicking: The author is SM Stirling. There is an SF writer named Sterling, but his stuff is rather different.

Argh. That's embarrassing. I even knew that.

My only excuse is that I'm fighting the flu, and my brain isn't up to snuff, because of all the sniffling.

(That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!)

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The issue of course, is why he wanted them to exist. He created awesome villains of awesomeness and then just let them win (in their universe) forever. There was actually a Sailor Moon/Drakon fan fic crossover where Gwen explicitly loses because she's no longer in the universe where "the Draka win" is a law of the universe like gravity.

I wonder if maybe he was setting them up as the antagonists for a second set of stories about an interdimensional war, and then realized he didn't want to write about 'em, any more.

As for a Sailor Moon crossover... that's just too weird to contemplate, for very long, although the denouement sounds sorta amusing.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

I wonder if maybe he was setting them up as the antagonists for a second set of stories about an interdimensional war, and then realized he didn't want to write about 'em, any more.

In his anthology, Drakas, he has them come into an Infinite Worlds setting, between The Alliance and The Empire. (To use the TVTropes definitions. You'd have to read the story to get more details.)

Basically, one set of universes has been expanding by having their alternate-Earths willingly joining their Alliance. And another set of universes has been expanding by enslaving alternate-Earths. And then some Alliance agents get sent to the tiny Infinite Worlds empire of the Drakon.

Which shows that the ending of Drakon may (canonicity?) not have been the ultimate defeat many perceived it to be. And that there were more than just the Samothracians who discovered The Secret.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

]In his anthology, Drakas, he has them come into an Infinite Worlds setting, between The Alliance and The Empire. (To use the TVTropes definitions. You'd have to read the story to get more details.)

That was John Barnes doing a crossover with his own series Timeline Wars.

Which shows that the ending of Drakon may (canonicity?) not have been the ultimate defeat many perceived it to be.

The best case scenario has the Draka of their world having lost track of the world of Drakon, which only leaves them with the problem that they've got a reproducing population of Draka taking over from within.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

I wonder if maybe he was setting them up as the antagonists for a second set of stories about an interdimensional war, and then realized he didn't want to write about 'em, any more.

DRAKON was supposed as first of a trilogy, with UNTO US A CHILD IS BORN as the working title for the second volume that followed the teenage clone/daughter of Gwen. ISTR the third was going to be the big showdown on our earth, IIRC.