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Old 01-20-2013, 03:07 PM   #21
jeff_wilson
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Default Re: The Draka Suoersoldiers in GURPS

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This. This is the thing that irritates me the most about these guys. Bad guys with author fiat behind them? Yeah....no like.
I don't get this. It's the story of a terrible culture that arises and takes over the world, of course it's going to win most of the time. But in DRAKON, Gwen dies and the Samothracians are seen successfully snooping the Draka's deepest darkest black project undetectably. If anything, they were being set up to lose.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:16 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Draka Supersoldiers in GURPS

The Draka were nearly insufferable in Stone Dogs (and I liked the previous two books). Stirling deserves some criticism for how they appeared to be creepy reflections of his idea of a perfect society (yes, I read his foreword in The Domination).

But yeah, the ending of Drakon implies that the Draka just had their main molehole (wormhole) facility destroyed along with an entire assembled invasion army and their head servus researcher, Tolya.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:32 PM   #23
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This reminds me of the way Jack Willimson's THE HUMANOIDS was taken by some critics to be promoting paternalism because the hero comes to realize that the machines really are incorruptible and that after his integration in their society his freedoms are better preserved under their stewardship than the human government that had abused him....overlooking that the integration included psychosurgery, drug therapy, and panopticon supervision.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:10 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Draka Supersoldiers in GURPS

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The Draka were nearly insufferable in Stone Dogs (and I liked the previous two books). Stirling deserves some criticism for how they appeared to be creepy reflections of his idea of a perfect society (yes, I read his foreword in The Domination).

But yeah, the ending of Drakon implies that the Draka just had their main molehole (wormhole) facility destroyed along with an entire assembled invasion army and their head servus researcher, Tolya.
The Draka are not, at all, a reflection of Stirling's idea of a perfect society, any more than the New Virginians were, in "Conquistador." In fact, Stirling has specifically stated, on numerous occasions, that the Draka could only exist if everything in the past 250 or so years of human history went as nearly perfectly badly as possible.

He was playing with ideas, and that's it. That's what authors do. As far as ideas go, the Draka weren't his best. As noted, he had to use author intervention to get that society in place, and the things he had to do in his alt-history were obviously contrived.

Where does this notion come from, that "they appeared to be creepy reflections of his idea of a perfect society," when he's gone out of his way to say that simply is not so?
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:25 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Draka Supersoldiers in GURPS

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Where does this notion come from, that "they appeared to be creepy reflections of his idea of a perfect society,"
The way everything seems to work out not just in their favor but in the best possible way, and even sometimes better than seems possible, in the earlier books doesn't help. Also, the Draka do implement a number of social and technical reforms that the author personally advocated, which makes "human history went as nearly perfectly badly as possible" hyperbole.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:32 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Draka Supersoldiers in GURPS

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The Draka are not, at all, a reflection of Sterling's idea of a perfect society, any more than the New Virginians were, in "Conquistador." In fact, Sterling has specifically stated, on numerous occasions, that the Draka could only exist if everything in the past 250 or so years of human history went as nearly perfectly badly as possible.

He was playing with ideas, and that's it. That's what authors do. As far as ideas go, the Draka weren't his best. As noted, he had to use author intervention to get that society in place, and the things he had to do in his alt-history were obviously contrived.

Where does this notion come from, that "they appeared to be creepy reflections of his idea of a perfect society," when he's gone out of his way to say that simply is not so?
From what I gather its driven by the way the author seems to coddle the Draka and have everything work out almost perfectly for them in the earlier books to a point many feel its unreasonable. So people assume they're a "writer's darling" creation and reflect something he stands for.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:11 PM   #27
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This. This is the thing that irritates me the most about these guys. Bad guys with author fiat behind them? Yeah....no like.

Makes me want to sic Ripped Shirt Kirk on her. First he'll make hot augment whoopie with her, then tie her up with unbreakable chains until his love-child is born, then dispose of her in a suitable fashion, and then rule the universe with the product of that unholy (or is it holy?) union. :D

That or the universe will end when the Draka Destiny meets up with Ripped Shirt Kirk....immovable object meets irresistible force and vice versa. ;)
^This .

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Old 01-20-2013, 09:14 PM   #28
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Default Re: The Draka Supersoldiers in GURPS

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Sterling has specifically stated, on numerous occasions, that the Draka could only exist if everything in the past 250 or so years of human history went as nearly perfectly badly as possible.

I'd argue that he's totally wrong about that; the Draka society would never have made it past 50 years, let alone conquered a continent.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:29 AM   #29
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Default Re: The Draka Supersoldiers in GURPS

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Where does this notion come from, that "they appeared to be creepy reflections of his idea of a perfect society," when he's gone out of his way to say that simply is not so?
He can claim whatever he wants. Stone Dogs was one giant contrivance to lead to a victorious Draka, and required the entire opposition faction to be carrying idiot balls from the 1950s onward. He's simply being disingenuous if he claims to not understand where this idea comes from.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:01 AM   #30
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Default Re: The Draka Supersoldiers in GURPS

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I'd argue that he's totally wrong about that; the Draka society would never have made it past 50 years, let alone conquered a continent.
Right. That's why Stirling said what he said. There's no way the Draka could survive, in any realistic alt-history. They'd have been destroyed, pretty quickly.

So, to get them to exist, at all, he had to come up with some pretty unrealistic contrivances, and Sterling said as much.
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