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Old 09-29-2008, 12:52 PM   #11
Maz
 
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Default Re: Battlesuits & Supersoldiers

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Originally Posted by Avatar
However, with an enhanced ST score, and a heavy battlesuit that gives +20 to Lifting and Striking Strenght, I might well end up with PCs that can punch almost as hard as their guns can hit, and even with the same AD if I let them have, say, vibro blades or hyperdense blades.
Uhm, exactly how weak and comparitable old-age weaposn do they got?
Even with ST:40 and with a vibro-sword you not get more than about 8d (5).

It's pretty easy to get ranged weaposn that does at least as much as that, but most likely A LOT more.

But the primary benefit of ranged weapons is not damage, it is... range! What does it matter if you can punch me to death when I can shoot you in the head 7 times before you get close enough?

And then we got High RoF weapons which gives even more hits.



Most often people have problems with the opposite, where they WANT melee to be just as or more powerfull than ranged weapons. GURPS doesn't do that very well, even in extreme examples such as the one above.
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: Battlesuits & Supersoldiers

Well, the problem is pretty much solved, thanks to the first few comments. I think I'll just use expertly trained mortals. After all, that would, IMO, be far more likely, cost considered.
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Last edited by Avatar; 10-02-2008 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:13 PM   #13
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Default Reason for Battlesuits --

For about the last century, the big killer of troops on the battlefield has been the fragmentation & blast from large amounts of indirect fire weapons. IIRC even in a guerrilla war like Vietnam, less than 50 percent of all casualties were caused by direct fire weapons.

As such, even if armor won't stop the Super-Zip kinetic energy direct fire projectile, you can still cut down on your side's casualties by full body armor.

Second, even if the top-of-the-line armed forces all have Super-Zip anti-body-armor rounds, the stuff is much more expensive than the plain-vanilla small arms ammo. As such (again) it's worth while for use vs. guerrillas, rioters, and others who won't have the Super-Zap stuff.

So -- short version -- full body armor is going to be useful and as long as you're carrying the stuff you might as well make it powered so you can carry more of your own ammo, gear, etc.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: Reason for Battlesuits --

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Originally Posted by fredtheobviouspseudonym
For about the last century, the big killer of troops on the battlefield has been the fragmentation & blast from large amounts of indirect fire weapons. IIRC even in a guerrilla war like Vietnam, less than 50 percent of all casualties were caused by direct fire weapons.

As such, even if armor won't stop the Super-Zip kinetic energy direct fire projectile, you can still cut down on your side's casualties by full body armor.
And has the added advantage, if the other side hasn't got equivalent armor, that you can fire off frag rounds into your own side if the enemy has gotten too close.
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: Battlesuits & Supersoldiers

Supersoldiers in battlesuits have some definite advantages. Enhanced DEX and reflex boosts are of course an enormous edge for any combatant, but strength also could be useful depending on the preferred weapons. If people are going to be shooting at you with gauss rifles, with their dinky pi- damage, or grasers with their incredible armor piercing, having some extra HP may just keep you on your feet.

And like all biotechnology, if done right your supersoldiers aren't all that expensive to get more of. Development is a big-ticket item, duplication not so much. Of course, they do have to be raised and trained.
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Old 09-30-2008, 06:18 AM   #16
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Default Re: Battlesuits & Supersoldiers

You should think of advanced armour as being a flak jacket with, very nice, bells and whistles. Like Fred# said, Frag is a major killer.

whatever suit you choose, nanoweave etc, add the stealth options to it. Ghost in the Shell Therm-optic camouflage troops will be harder to shoot. Melee becomes an option.
How about a battlesuit sized hyperdense vibro-sabre? ST12 (limit of use is ST36?) Sw +1d+1 (10) cut, Th +2d (10) Imp wgt 3.5/C $70,000. At a boosted ST of 32 that will, on average, need DR160 to stop(?). Moderately strong troops in heavy battlesuits could shred the limbs of their ilk and be a serious threat to Dreadnought suits.
Add in velocity sensitive forcefields and ranged weapons become good for riot control with Martial Arts for the serious work, like killing MICVs .
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:21 AM   #17
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Default Re: Battlesuits & Supersoldiers

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth
Supersoldiers in battlesuits have some definite advantages. Enhanced DEX and reflex boosts are of course an enormous edge for any combatant, but strength also could be useful depending on the preferred weapons.
Slightly off-topic, but are muscular bioengineered supersoldiers really advantageous in this setting? Reflexes and hand-eye-coordination sure, but if they've got battlesuits that add ST +20 available (What is that, like TL 11?) why not make the supersoldiers smaller than normal, so they can be packed into smaller spaceships and fed less protein? That stuff will matter way more on the mass scale than individual lifting ST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth
If people are going to be shooting at you with gauss rifles, with their dinky pi- damage, or grasers with their incredible armor piercing, having some extra HP may just keep you on your feet.
Pi- still does 4X on a headshot. If somebody was shooting at me with "dinky" pi- damage and I wasn't 100% sure that it had no chance at all of penetrating the weakest part of my helmet, I'd probably be performing a Dodge n' Drop, behind cover if possible, rather than worrying about staying on my feet. Besides, at this TL, HP that would be over-the-top in DF amount to the difference between spending the rest of the game at the medic or the organ bank. If you take a hit at all you're probably done.
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Old 10-01-2008, 09:43 PM   #18
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Default I like this point . . .

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Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc
. . . why not make the supersoldiers smaller than normal, so they can be packed into smaller spaceships and fed less protein? That stuff will matter way more on the mass scale than individual lifting ST.
Makes excellent sense and will empower "little people" everywhere.

The 5307th Provisional Group, better known as "Merrill's Marauding Midgets!" (with apologies to the vertically-less-empowered folks everywhere. Have to be PC in the 23rd century, of course . . . )

The smaller you are the smaller the surface area of the suit & the thicker the armor can be, the less mass of the armor the more effective the strength of the mechanism . . . wow.

So. You go into the Space Marine's bar -- and the tall, strapping John Wayne types are the chairborne pencil pushers -- the real HE-men are the short little pasty-skinned guys (don't get much of a tan through the suit, stranger!) who man the Storm-Assault suits for the heavy in-close action . . .
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:48 PM   #19
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Default Re: Battlesuits & Supersoldiers

OF course, ST does give HP, and when your suits batteries cack out, it may be nice to have troops who can still move, even if ponderously and slowly.
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Old 10-01-2008, 11:10 PM   #20
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Default Re: Battlesuits & Supersoldiers

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Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc
Slightly off-topic, but are muscular bioengineered supersoldiers really advantageous in this setting? Reflexes and hand-eye-coordination sure, but if they've got battlesuits that add ST +20 available (What is that, like TL 11?) why not make the supersoldiers smaller than normal, so they can be packed into smaller spaceships and fed less protein? That stuff will matter way more on the mass scale than individual lifting ST.
Yeah, not really much point in bioengineered strong soldiers being placed in armor that has it's own higher mechanical strength. Better to have the strength-enhanced soldiers in non-powered armor and "mundane" soldiers in powered armor. If soldiers in unpowered armor are not viable in the setting, then it's unlikely soldiers would be bioengineered with enhanced ST at all.

(yes, I know that in 4e HP = ST, but given the damage of ultra-tech military weapons, a few extra HPs are irrelevant)
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Last edited by copeab; 10-02-2008 at 12:59 AM.
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