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Old 05-27-2014, 01:34 PM   #1
chandley
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default [DF] Stating up Centaurs

Edit: I have put a release candidate out in this thread here.

Okay, I wasnt satisfied with the Centaur in Banestorm, not because its a bad template, but because it assigns a ST of 18 to the whole Centaur, making its horse side a little light on ST, and its human side really strong.

Not that I have a problem with really strong human side Centaur, except that Id prefer it come from the Barbarian template, rather than the racial template.

Anyway. I had an idea to stat em out like this. Let me know if this flies in your opinion, or if you have a better way.


Attribute Modifiers:
ST +1 [9]*.
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: Basic Move +1 [5].
Advantages: Claws (Hooves) [3]; Enhanced Move (Ground) x2 [20]; Extra Legs (4 legs) [5]; ST +10 (Size -10%; NFM -40%) [50];
Disadvantages: Social Stigma (Minority Group) [-10]; Extra Vitals (Horse Torso) [-5];
Quirks: Compulsive Carousing; Finds the trappings of domesticated horses (saddles, harness, stables) offensive [-2].
Features: SM +1 (2 hexes); Only human head, neck, arm, and torso armor is interchangeable with other humanoids (and armor is bought at SM 0). Horse armor is interchangeable with other horse armor (though their caprisons will not protect a normal horses neck, and a normal horses caprison will have to be folded back a bit. Horse armor is already sized for SM +1). ST is split, the +10 ST with No Fine Manipulators applies to encumbrance, kicking, slam damage, and any other action they could do primarily with their horse body. Their normal ST applies to their human torso, including its arms (and the arms crippling threshold), and would be used for weapon min ST and damage, punching, wrestling with their arms, etc. Centaurs require 2x the rations of a human.

* -10% for SM +1

Power Ups:
Stats: Increase ST as human torso ST (to +1 over any class limit), horse ST is always +10 over that.


Note: Their caprison weighs 450% instead of 500%, as it doesnt include the Neck coverage a normal horse caprison would. I have some background text that I have written up, Ill include it in the full write up when I have something I like.

So the idea here is that their human torso is ST 11 by default, and their human arms swing with ST 11, and take 6 HPs to cripple. Meanwhile, their horse body is ST 21, they carry loads like they are ST 21, Slam as HP 21, legs take 11 hps to cripple, etc. Thats the effect I want anyway, but Ill admit putting NFM -40% on only part of their ST is eyebrow raising. I did something similar with Elephants though, as I am really not a fan of the Weak Arm limitation, especially when applied to your "original arms", rather than just making a third arm somewhat cheaper. You pay full price for your ST, but can only exert 1/4 or 1/2 of it with a manipulator, and you get all of 5 points back for that? No thanks.

Another option, though, might be to buy ST up to 21 normally (no NFM), and then buy down Arm ST at -5 points per level. Arm ST doesnt NORMALLY modify HPs to cripple, but per RPK's analysis, its priced as if it should, so it would make it a feature to do so here. So thats another possibility, and is cheaper (in this instance) to boot.

There a third way? Thoughts?

Thanks.
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Last edited by chandley; 05-30-2014 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 05-27-2014, 01:46 PM   #2
Turhan's Bey Company
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Default Re: [DF] Stating up Centaurs

I think buying up ST to a high level then back down for the arms might be a better approach than what you've got, since about the only thing the high ST doesn't cover is the arms. Alternatively, you might buy Lifting ST, create a "Leg ST" advantage (basically Arm ST with the NFM modifier), and maybe some extra HP.
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Old 05-27-2014, 01:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: [DF] Stating up Centaurs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
I think buying up ST to a high level then back down for the arms might be a better approach than what you've got, since about the only thing the high ST doesn't cover is the arms. Alternatively, you might buy Lifting ST, create a "Leg ST" advantage (basically Arm ST with the NFM modifier), and maybe some extra HP.
Yeah, Im starting to come around to that. Because obviously there is no "crippling limit" for the torso or head. So, if I bought down Arm ST, do I buy it down as Arm ST (2 Arms) -10 [50], or Arm ST (2 arms, Size -10%) -10 [45].
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Old 05-27-2014, 01:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: [DF] Stating up Centaurs

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Originally Posted by chandley View Post
Yeah, Im starting to come around to that. Because obviously there is no "crippling limit" for the torso or head. So, if I bought down Arm ST, do I buy it down as Arm ST (2 Arms) -10 [50], or Arm ST (2 arms, Size -10%) -10 [45].
I think it'd be the latter. You bought the ST cheap, so you don't get as many points selling parts of it back.
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Old 05-27-2014, 02:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: [DF] Stating up Centaurs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
I think buying up ST to a high level then back down for the arms might be a better approach than what you've got, since about the only thing the high ST doesn't cover is the arms.
Which is to say, the ST doesn't cover his fine manipulators, which is consistent with the price being paid for the ST. Buying reduced arm ST is grossly undervalued if it applies to all your arms -- it's a whole -10 points for halving your ST for all your arms.
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Old 05-27-2014, 04:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: [DF] Stating up Centaurs

How many vitals locations do centaurs have?
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Old 05-27-2014, 06:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: [DF] Stating up Centaurs

In this imagining, which is more based off of "human torso on horse body" than biology, there is something vital in their human chest, their human abdomen, and their horse chest and abdomen.

The Disad limit for that is just an inversion of Injury Tolerance (No Vitals). It might actually be worth MORE than that as a disad, given what it takes to protect the horse vitals.
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Old 05-27-2014, 06:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: [DF] Stating up Centaurs

Centaur
75 points

Choice Professions: Barbarian (no gigantism), Druid, Knight
Marginal Professions: Thief, Ninja

Centaurs are another of the beastmen, though of a fairly unique type. Instead of a bipedal melding of animal and humanoid features, Centaurs have the body of a horse, with the torso, arms and head of a human where the horses neck and head would have been. Coloration runs through the entire spectrum of human skin, eye and hair colors for their human torso, and separately through the full range of horse patterns and colors (including pure black, red, and white) for their lower body.

The largest Centaur herds are nomadic, following or herding herbivores for meat, milk and hide. Some have settled in one place and are as civilized as any human farming village, but the largest settlements rarely even reach the size of a human market town. While most Centaur are not adverse to giving friends a lift on their backs, woe be to the stranger who attempts to "ride" them. Nomadic Centaur often get along well with elves and halflings. While many consider Centaur somewhat crude and savage, there are many tales of wise centaur sages, some powerful magic users.

Find a Centaurs height at their withers by using the lower number for Height Range on the Build Table for their ST before the racial modifier (e.g. A ST 10 Centaur is 5'3" (15.3 hands) at the shoulder of their horse body). Their human body adds one third the height of a normal human their ST (e.g. That same ST 10 Centaur has a human body adding between 1'9" and 2', for a total height of 7' to 7'3"). They weigh eight times as much as a human of their ST before racial modifier. Centaurs are omnivores.

Centaur generally wear minimal clothing (the women are perhaps notoriously immodest) except in very cold weather. They will wear armor however. Armor is bought as normal for their human head, neck, arms, hands and torso, plus horse barding (in Low Tech, they can wear Peytral, Flanchards, and Crupper, or a Caparison weighing only 450% of human torso armor covering their horse torso, groin, and legs (on a 1-4). Leg armor is also available, at 75% of human torso armor per leg, while foot armor is 5% of human torso armor per foot). They favor bows (they can fire longbows without issue) and spears (also used as lances). The more settled centaurs will use polearms, especially those with spearheads.

Saddles, horse blankets and other aids to riding work normally for riding a centaur, if you can convince one to use more than a horse blanket, and they suffer the same rolls horses do for being ridden without proper gear (per Low Tech p.133). Obviously there are no bridles, bits, or halters for centaurs, and Riding Crops, Spurs and Stirrups give no bonus to Riding skill (and using them in a way that would have provided a bonus will provoke a fight!)

Attribute Modifiers:
ST +11 [99]*.
Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: Basic Move +2 [10].
Advantages: Claws (Hooves) [3]; Enhanced Move (Ground) x2 [20]; Extra Legs (4 legs) [5];
Disadvantages: Arm ST (2 Arms, Size -10%) -10 [-45]; Social Stigma (Minority Group) [-10]; Extra Vitals (Horse Torso) [-5];
Quirks: Compulsive Carousing; Finds the trappings of domesticated horses (saddles, harness, stables) offensive [-2].
Features: SM +1 (2 hexes); Only human head, neck, arm, and torso armor is interchangeable with other humanoids (and armor is bought at SM 0). Horse armor is interchangeable with other horse armor (though their caprisons will not protect a normal horses neck, and a normal horses caprison will have to be folded back a bit. Horse armor is already sized for SM +1). Their human arms are crippled at the lower limit set by their Arm ST, not at the limit set by overall HPs. Centaurs require 2x the rations of a human.

* -10% for SM +1

Power Ups:
Stats: ST can go to +15 over class limits, Arm ST will not vary by more than the normal limits. Ground Move can be increased by +3 more [5/level].
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Old 05-27-2014, 06:28 PM   #9
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Default Re: [DF] Stating up Centaurs

Arm ST is not available as a disadvantage; the official way of doing this appears to be buying Weak on your two normal arms, per Modifying Beings with One or Two Arms on B53. This is [-5] if both of your arms are weak (half body ST). Yes, this is an absolutely atrocious deal, so I allow 'not for fine manipulators' at the same cost as No Fine Manipulators, meaning the extra ST doesn't apply to any fine manipulators you might have, but that's a house rule.
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Old 05-27-2014, 09:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: [DF] Stating up Centaurs

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Arm ST is not available as a disadvantage; the official way of doing this appears to be buying Weak on your two normal arms, per Modifying Beings with One or Two Arms on B53. This is [-5] if both of your arms are weak (half body ST). Yes, this is an absolutely atrocious deal, so I allow 'not for fine manipulators' at the same cost as No Fine Manipulators, meaning the extra ST doesn't apply to any fine manipulators you might have, but that's a house rule.
Right, trying to see which of the two house rules to use. -40% on the non-arm ST or a disadvantage version of Arm ST. Neither is RAW, just trying to see which is more palatable to the hive mind.
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