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Old 08-03-2018, 09:59 AM   #21
Jim Kane
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Default Re: Sell Me on The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Tolenkar View Post
I would just point out two things that I thought were important with creating a great TFT experience back in the early 80's (and I think are still relevant):

Easy to learn:
Thank you, thank you, thank you so very much for using the adjective "Easy", as opposed to "simple". TFT was a masterpiece of inspiration and innovation for it's time; and there was nothing *simple* about that.

Easy, as in: "Easy-to-Learn" accurately befits the dignity and status of the game, the brilliance of the basic design, and the author; whereas, *Simple* carries with it a one-dimensional limitation which always bothers me when I see or hear it employed in reference to The Fantasy Trip.

Here is what Easy actually means: "achieved without great effort; presenting few difficulties." - that sounds like TFT to me.

Comparatively, here is the additional dimensional quality of "simple", which "easy" does not possess: "composed of a single element; not compound." - and to me, that is *not* TFT.

I know it's not a big deal, and for most people did not score 800 on the verbal section of the SAT it is even less of a big deal; but nonetheless, I grind my teeth every time I see the word: "simple", employed in the description of TFT.

My dentist and I *thank you* for the using the phrase: "Easy-to-Learn".

Simply yours,

JK
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Old 08-03-2018, 12:31 PM   #22
flankspeed
 
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Default Re: Sell Me on The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by Jim Kane View Post
Thank you, thank you, thank you so very much for using the adjective "Easy", as opposed to "simple"....
I'm ashamed of not living up to my relatively high Verbal score on the SAT. :)

The word "simple" had nagged at me, but I did not bother to find a better way to express what TFT offers. "Ease of learning" is an excellent alternative, and you convinced me so thoroughly that I edited my previous post here to use it in place of "simplicity."

One way of putting it might be: "TFT offers ease of learning combined with depth of game play, breadth of character options, and wide-open potential for roleplaying."

Thank you for waking up the National Merit Scholarship Finalist in me, hehe.
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Old 08-03-2018, 01:05 PM   #23
Jim Kane
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Default Re: Sell Me on The Fantasy Trip

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Thank you for waking up the National Merit Scholarship Finalist in me, hehe.
I do what I can ;-)

Seriously though, "Easy-to-Learn" is accurate, punches effectively, and with dignity; the word: simple, not so. I have often compared aspects of TFT to that of Chess, which, is also: Easy-to-Learn, but is not at all *simple* - and the Japanese game of Go, even more so.

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 08-03-2018 at 01:07 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 08-03-2018, 01:50 PM   #24
Chris Rice
 
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Although I have used both "easy" and "simple" to describe the system, my preference is for "elegant."

(In its scientific definition)

"Pleasingly ingenious and simple."

I've seen simple but inelegant systems and I've seen elegant but complex systems. TFT was the only one that managed to be both elegant and simple.
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Old 08-03-2018, 02:40 PM   #25
JLV
 
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Default Re: Sell Me on The Fantasy Trip

I used simple, but noted that it wasn't "trivial" -- which is what a lot of people actually "hear" when you say "simple." But you're right -- "easy" is a better descriptive for the ease of access to the game.

On the other hand, "easy" doesn't imply "not challenging," either; Chess is pretty easy to learn and internalize, when you come right down to it, but mastery is a completely different matter.
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Old 08-03-2018, 02:50 PM   #26
Chris Rice
 
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I used simple, but noted that it wasn't "trivial" -- which is what a lot of people actually "hear" when you say "simple." But you're right -- "easy" is a better descriptive for the ease of access to the game.

On the other hand, "easy" doesn't imply "not challenging," either; Chess is pretty easy to learn and internalize, when you come right down to it, but mastery is a completely different matter.

Chess is indisputably an elegant game.
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Old 08-03-2018, 06:50 PM   #27
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And, you're right Chris, "elegant" is a very good word for TFT.
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Old 08-03-2018, 07:36 PM   #28
Jim Kane
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Elegant,... and bloody! :::heh hehe heh:::

JK
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:41 PM   #29
afschell
 
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The geographical dispersement of my gaming group mandates that we play using VTTs. DFRPG/GURPS is just too complex/slow for my taste in this scenario.

Take. for example, a standard melee combat sequence. In DFRPG (and more so in GURPS Basic) the sequence is:
  1. Roll to hit. With an additional roll if there is a critical hit or miss.
    Total # of Rolls (so far): 1
    Total # of Rules (so far): 1
  2. Roll to defend (with a possible retreat which adds +3 to Dodge, and +3 to Parry if you have skills X, Y, or Z or +1 to Parry and +1 to Block if you don't have those skills.) And remember to subtract the Shield DB from the Dodge roll if the attack comes from various facings.
    Total # of Rolls (so far): 3
    Total # of Rules (so far): 3
  3. If that roll fails (i.e. the attack rolls damage), roll for damage and calculate it's multiplier based on damage type.
    Total # of Rolls (so far): 3
    Total # of Rules (so far): 5
  4. Subtract the damage from the attack based on armor and attacker's facing (for Shield effectiveness).
    Total # of Rolls (so far): 3
    Total # of Rules (so far): 6
  5. Determine if there was Shock, Knockdown, Major Wounds, Unconsciousness, etc., based on a multitude of modifiers: Do you have "HPT", "Low Pain Threshold", "How Many HP did you start with?", "How big of a wound is it as a percentage of your starting HP?", "Was it a crippling wound based on where it hit?", "If you failed the Knockdown roll, by how much?", "Did the damage stun you?". The list goes on.
    Total # of Rolls (so far): 3 (but probably more are required (HT saves, for example).
    Total # of Rules (so far): At least 8 (with some of these, e.g. Unconsciousness from Knockdown, being buried as a single, non-highlighted, line in the text).
  6. Determine if the target is still alive by rolling against HT if necessary (with varying modifiers based on how many multiples of HP the target is down).
    Total # of Rolls (so far): 4 or more, especially if a critical hit or miss was involved.
    Total # of Rules (so far): 9 or more
  7. Next ...
Compare to TFT:ITL:
  1. Roll to hit. A critical hit either doubles or triples the damage; a critical miss either drops or breaks the weapon.
    Total # of Rolls (so far): 1
    Total # of Rules (so far): 1
  2. If successful, roll for damage
    Total # of Rolls (so far): 2
    Total # of Rules (so far): 2
  3. Subtract armor and shield (where shields work if the attack came from the front).
    Total # of Rolls (so far): 2
    Total # of Rules (so far): 3
  4. React to the injury (5 or more total hits this turn, -2 DX on your next turn, 8 or more you fall down).
    Total # of Rolls (so far): 2
    Total # of Rules (so far): 4
  5. Next ...
So, for a basic combat sequence TFT:ITL uses 1/2 the dice rolls (which will definitely speed things up) and less than 1/2 the rules than DFRPG/GURPS. Which makes for a game that is more story driven than combat simulation/crunch driven. So you will be able to explore (and get more loot) each session.

Not to mention that it only gets more complicated in DFRPG/GURPS when you start bringing in "Close Combat", "Grappling", "Trampling", "Shield Rushes", etc. These are available in TFT:ITL but those rules are sentences or a paragraph or two, not paragraphs or a page or two.

Simply put, I cannot remember all the rules and various conditions as they apply in DFRPG, much less GURPS. That means that I am (at least partially) winging it when certain combat situations arise. The time spent searching through 600 pages of rules to settle arguments when there is a disagreement takes away from dungeon delving. And I, at least, would much rather play than dig through rules.

TFT:ITL isn't perfect. There will be pieces of DFRPG/GURPS that I will house rule in. But, overall, if you do more "roll-playing" than "role-playing" (which my group does) it cannot be beat.
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:58 PM   #30
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Default Re: Sell Me on The Fantasy Trip

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Originally Posted by afschell View Post
The geographical dispersement of my gaming group mandates that we play using VTTs.
Which VTT do you use for TFT?
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