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Old 01-05-2020, 10:09 PM   #1
DAT
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Default THS as the basis for a Hard Science ATE Setting

Have been throwing some ideas around, and have started thinking of using the THS 2100 (maybe 2120) setting, as the basis of hard science ATE settings where all out war has happened in the solar system.

General Setup:
The start is a PRC response to a TSA provocation that pulls in the PRA, Islamic Caliphate, SAC, and India, before it builds into pulling in the US, EU, Russian Federation, and every other Earth government. The conflict then expands into orbit, Lagrange Points, Luna, Mars, the Asteroids, the Trojans, inward to Mercury, and all the way out to Saturn.

Meteor/kinetic and Anti-Matter/Nuclear strikes and anti-AI, bio-, and nano- weapon attacks on Earth, Luna, Mars, and major asteroids settlements. Kinetic strikes against the LEO and major L4/L5 stations causing Kessler Cascades in various orbits around Earth and Mars. Orphaned AKVs continue the conflict after organized direction from the various governments and military forces cease, so rescue/recovery efforts are not feasible/very dangerous for an extended time.

Map of Possible Campaign Ideas:
1. Small Groups of Survivors during and soon after the conflict
A. Earth Based - gather supplies and find a place to hold up
I. Fifth Wave area
II. Fourth Wave area
III. Third Wave area
IV. Isolated Party (hunters, scientist, smugglers, tourist)
B. Orbital Station Based - gather supplies and retreat to safety
I. L4 (Islandia)
II. L5 (Elfs in Cornerstone or Seventh Heaven)
C. Luna Based - gather supplies and find a place to hold up
D. Mars Based - gather supplies and find safe location to hold up
E. Main Belt Asteroid Station - gather supplies and find a safe location or retreat
F. Outer System Station - gather supplies and find a safe location or retreat
I. Europa
II. Trojans or other Jovians
III. Titan
IV. Miranda
V. Duncanite colony on a KBO
G. Space Craft - go to some safe location

2. Survivors Groups a few months to years after the conflict
A. Earth Based - Build compound, gather more survivors
B. Luna Based - Fix site or retreat to ?
C. Mars Based - Secure compound, gather more survivors
D. Asteroid/Outer System Station - Fix/secure site or retreat to ?

3. Groups in the New Emergent Civilization a couple generations after the conflict
A. Earth Based - Conflicts between groups for resources and leadership/control
B. Luna/Asteroid/Outer System - New Civilization formation, internal conflict
C. Mars Based - Conflict between groups for resources/new civilization formation

4. The New World (Civilization) many generations after the conflict
A. Earth Based - After new civilization has formed and is working at recovering space
B. Earth Based - After a collapse and a new medieval civilization reforms
C. Mars Based - After new civilization has formed and is working at recovering space
D. Mars Based - After a collapse and a new civilization arises
E. Luna/Asteroid/Outer System - Meeting of the civilizations from inner and outer system
F. Luna/Asteroid/Outer System - Explore what has happened on Earth/Mars

See any missing interesting campaign locations/ideas?

Which (if any) grab your imagination (I.e., you would want to play in)?

Having a pessimistic view of how fragile a technological society is, and having reread the first Shannara book too recently, the one that is drawing me in at the moment is 4.B: Generations after the war, former civilization collapsed, much knowledge lost (at least by the majority of the population), and new medieval/feudal governments around. Rather than traditional fantasy races (although the names will likely be used) there are different “races” of upgrades and parahumans (plus a limited number of infomorphs) around, along with some artifacts of the ancients.

Some general campaign ideas:
- Explore the world (find artifacts, meet new “races”, upgrade knowledge)
- Fight against the others (resources the other upgrades/parahumans have)
- “Slave” (an unpressed upgrade/parahumans group) revolt
- Over throw the “evil” (a dominate upgrade/parahumans group) overlords
- Catch a falling star (tie in to 4.F - find a way for the damaged infomorph scout to contact the Outer System Civilization probe in HEO)

What upgrades/parahumans have survived?
What artifacts have survived?
What knowledge was retained and what lost? By who?
Thoughts?

Last edited by DAT; 01-14-2020 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 01-06-2020, 12:59 AM   #2
Johnny1A.2
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default Re: THS as the basis for a Hard Science ATE Setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAT View Post
Have been throwing some ideas around, and have started thinking of using the THS 2100 (maybe 2120) setting, as the basis of hard science ATE settings where all out war has happened in the solar system.

General Setup:
The start is a PRC response to a TSA provocation that pulls in the PRA, Islamic Caliphate, SAC, and India, before it builds into pulling in the US, EU, Russian Federation, and every other Earth government. The conflict then expands into orbit, Lagrange Points, Luna, Mars, the Asteroids, the Trojans, inward to Mercury, and all the way out to Saturn.

Meteor/kinetic and Anti-Matter/Nuclear strikes and anti-AI, bio-, and nano- weapon attacks on Earth, Luna, Mars, and major asteroids settlements. Kinetic strikes against the LEO and major L4/L5 stations causing Kessler Cascades in various orbits around Earth and Mars. Orphaned AKVs continue the conflict after organized direction from the various governments and military forces cease, so rescue/recovery efforts are not feasible/very dangerous for an extended time.

Map of Possible Campaign Ideas:
1. Small Groups of Survivors during and soon after the conflict
A. Earth Based - gather supplies and find a place to hold up
I. Fifth Wave area
II. Fourth Wave area
III. Third Wave area
IV. Isolated Party (hunters, scientist, smugglers, tourist)
B. Orbital Station Based - gather supplies and retreat to safety
I. L4 (Islandia)
II. L5 (Elfs in Cornerstone or Seventh Heaven)
C. Luna Based - gather supplies and find a place to hold up
D. Mars Based - gather supplies and find safe location to hold up
E. Main Belt Asteroid Station - gather supplies and find a safe location or retreat
F. Outer System Station - gather supplies and find a safe location or retreat
I. Europa
II. Trojans or other Jovians
III. Titan
IV. Miranda
V. Duncanite colony on a KBO
G. Space Craft - go to some safe location
2. Survivors Groups a few months to years after the conflict
A. Earth Based - Build compound, gather more survivors
B. Luna Based - Fix site or retreat to ?
C. Mars Based - Secure compound, gather more survivors
D. Asteroid/Outer System Station - Fix/secure site or retreat to ?
3. Groups in the New Emergent Civilization a couple generations after the conflict
A. Earth Based - Conflicts between groups for resources and leadership/control
B. Luna/Asteroid/Outer System - New Civilization formation, internal conflict
C. Mars Based - Conflict between groups for resources/new civilization formation
4. The New World (Civilization) many generations after the conflict
A. Earth Based - After new civilization has formed and is working at recovering space
B. Earth Based - After a collapse and a new medieval civilization reforms
C. Mars Based - After new civilization has formed and is working at recovering space
D. Mars Based - After a collapse and a new civilization arises
E. Luna/Asteroid/Outer System - Meeting of the civilizations from inner and outer system
F. Luna/Asteroid/Outer System - Explore what has happened on Earth/Mars

See any missing interesting campaign locations/ideas?

Which (if any) grab your imagination (I.e., you would want to play in)?

Having a pessimistic view of how fragile a technological society is, and having reread the first Shannara book too recently, the one that is drawing me in at the moment is 4.B: Generations after the war, former civilization collapsed, much knowledge lost (at least by the majority of the population), and new medieval/feudal governments around. Rather than traditional fantasy races (although the names will likely be used) there are different “races” of upgrades and parahumans (plus a limited number of infomorphs) around, along with some artifacts of the ancients.

Some general campaign ideas:
- Explore the world (find artifacts, meet new “races”, upgrade knowledge)
- Fight against the others (resources the other upgrades/parahumans have)
- “Slave” (an unpressed upgrade/parahumans group) revolt
- Over throw the “evil” (a dominate upgrade/parahumans group) overlords
- Catch a falling star (tie in to 4.F - find a way for the damaged infomorph scout to contact the Outer System Civilization probe in HEO)

What upgrades/parahumans have survived?
What artifacts have survived?
What knowledge was retained and what lost? By who?
Thoughts?
Basically, if things have broken down to the point that it's a meaningful ATE scenario, you can probably write off most of the Solar System for biologicals, including most upgrades and bioroids. Earth would be (by far) the best place for a biological to be in an ATE scenario. Luna might have sufficient industrial and other necessary infrastructure in place to create a self-sustaining system...but it's gonna be tight and by no means a sure thing.

Mars might be sufficiently terraformed that it doesn't tip back into its 'wild' state once the Solar System wide infrastructure stops functioning. If so, where its half-terraformed surface environment and ecosystem will go is anybody's guess. There's a very significant chance, though, that Mars reverts back to something close to its pre-terraforming state over a fairly short period, esp. if the mirrors aren't still being maintained somehow.

For machine intelligence, it's possible that some parts of the Solar System are sufficiently industrialized and have sufficient support infrastructure in place that an infomorph society could still function. In fact, for them, in such places, the ATE scenario might not be all that bad, and recovery fairly fast.
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:35 AM   #3
cptbutton
 
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Default Re: THS as the basis for a Hard Science ATE Setting

Most data was likely in the cloud and canonically all data traffic is encrypted. So a lot of data will be lost. Retrieving vital files or keys just to get local equipment to work may be a common problem.

DRM is going to trash a lot of things because they won't run without permission from the license servers that no longer exist. Infosocialists may have an advantage because of this, and certainly they will point out this proves they were right.
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Old 01-11-2020, 02:58 PM   #4
DAT
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Default Re: THS as the basis for a Hard Science ATE Setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
Basically, if things have broken down to the point that it's a meaningful ATE scenario, you can probably write off most of the Solar System for biologicals, including most upgrades and bioroids. Earth would be (by far) the best place for a biological to be in an ATE scenario. Luna might have sufficient industrial and other necessary infrastructure in place to create a self-sustaining system...but it's gonna be tight and by no means a sure thing.
The early settings would be looking at that struggle, and the survivors search for a “safe” base. The later settings make the assumption, thru skill or luck, there are survivors at that point, but they may be in danger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
Mars might be sufficiently terraformed that it doesn't tip back into its 'wild' state once the Solar System wide infrastructure stops functioning. If so, where its half-terraformed surface environment and ecosystem will go is anybody's guess. There's a very significant chance, though, that Mars reverts back to something close to its pre-terraforming state over a fairly short period, esp. if the mirrors aren't still being maintained somehow.
A real dying Mars setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
For machine intelligence, it's possible that some parts of the Solar System are sufficiently industrialized and have sufficient support infrastructure in place that an infomorph society could still function. In fact, for them, in such places, the ATE scenario might not be all that bad, and recovery fairly fast.
Infomorphs, from a recovered Fifth Wave civilization in space, coming back to Earth (or Mars) is within some of the setting possibilities I mapped out.
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Old 01-11-2020, 03:03 PM   #5
DAT
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Default Re: THS as the basis for a Hard Science ATE Setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptbutton View Post
Most data was likely in the cloud and canonically all data traffic is encrypted. So a lot of data will be lost. Retrieving vital files or keys just to get local equipment to work may be a common problem.

DRM is going to trash a lot of things because they won't run without permission from the license servers that no longer exist. Infosocialists may have an advantage because of this, and certainly they will point out this proves they were right.
That will be a nasty item to pull on struggling survivors a few weeks after the War. Stuck on an asteroid or moon base, trying to fab parts to repair a critical part for life support or for an escape ship and the 3D printer goes belly up.
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Old 01-12-2020, 03:54 PM   #6
Johnny1A.2
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default Re: THS as the basis for a Hard Science ATE Setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAT View Post

Quote:
Mars might be sufficiently terraformed that it doesn't tip back into its 'wild' state once the Solar System wide infrastructure stops functioning. If so, where its half-terraformed surface environment and ecosystem will go is anybody's guess. There's a very significant chance, though, that Mars reverts back to something close to its pre-terraforming state over a fairly short period, esp. if the mirrors aren't still being maintained somehow.
A real dying Mars setting.
Yes.

Others have observed, over the years, that a terraformed Mars, if the support broke down, might rather resemble some versions of Mars from fiction, like Barsoom or The Martian Chronicles.

Now the Mars of canon THS isn't sufficiently terraformed for that to be likely. Most likely it rapidly reverts to something close to pre-terraformed conditions if the infrastructure breaks down.

But a Mars more completely terraformed, inhabited longer, might well go through a long, slow decline reminiscent of Golden Age Mars, complete with dried up seabeds and quite possibly canals.
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