11-12-2019, 12:42 PM | #11 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: 25mm Payload Rifle [Ultratech]
To be fair, the range on the UT grenade launcher is almost unbelievable. Its five times all but one GL in High Tech, and that's for an experimental weapon that was cancelled, so I'm not sure if I believe it. If we were comparing 500 yard maximum ranges to the 8,000 yards, there might be a little more demand for the payload riffle.
The weapons I'd really like to see would be 25 mm gyrocs or 100 mm grenade launchers. The one time I pulled out the payload riffle was for Reign of Steel, but that was before I figured out grenade launchers.
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11-12-2019, 02:33 PM | #12 |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: 25mm Payload Rifle [Ultratech]
Our specialist marksman had one in the Reign of Steel game that spawned Will to Live. We got it, along with other TL9 gear, as a present from the resistance in Zone Washington, so expense wasn't an issue. It was invaluable for damaging aircraft and heavy robots.
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11-12-2019, 04:51 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: 25mm Payload Rifle [Ultratech]
Did you also have a 15mm? If so, how did they compare? Was there a preference?
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11-12-2019, 05:02 PM | #14 |
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Re: 25mm Payload Rifle [Ultratech]
I had a character for a TL12 military time-cop game that unfortunately never actually ran who carried around a payload rifle. My character was a military android, and his team were tasked with defending the timeline against other time traveling groups who wanted to damage it. I carried a few mags of relatively normal ammo (HEMP for the armour pen, if I remember correctly), but I also had a single mag of 5 mini-nuke shots for targets like enemy time traveler vehicles. The payload rifle was the only weapon that could chuck the mini-nukes far enough away that the radiation was only a minor problem, and in theory the ROF of 3 would let me drop a bunch of them on a target at once if extreme overkill was needed.
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11-12-2019, 05:36 PM | #15 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: 25mm Payload Rifle [Ultratech]
I haven't had any player ask for one in my SF game. They go for laser rifles with underslung grenade launchers, and prefer 40mm for the extra payload over the 25mm GL's range.
An 'armoured' hovercraft has DR150/70, and I think it's fair to assume it's laminate for double value vs. shaped charges. That means a TL9 25mm shaped charge will do ~22.5 of injury per hit, and it takes about half a dozen hits to get the hovercraft to 0HP (assuming frontal hits). Depending on whether you go by the magazine weight or the individual round weight (they're inconsistent) that's 4.8 or 6 pounds of ammo. A 64mm missile weighs 2 pounds, and does ~117 points of injury, a major wound and nearly bringing the hovercraft to 0HP in one hit, so it's rather more weight efficient when it comes to hovercraft killing (the launcher is also lighter, even the 6-shot version, though the payload rifle is cheaper). The MLAWS can make a dent in the front of the light battle tank, too. The payload rifle needs a side or rear aspect. Also, I'd charge through the nose for viper rounds - if normal gyroc rounds cost $5 each, but guided ones $50 each just for the shell I see no reason why guided bullets shouldn't also come at a premium of at least something like +$40 or +100% of base cost, which ever is greater. Overall, I think the payload rifle is, if all the gear in UT is available, a very niche weapon (but not as niche as the poor gyrocs, which really don't have one at all). By the way, the 1/2D range of a gun is not the projectile's velocity.
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11-12-2019, 05:50 PM | #16 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: 25mm Payload Rifle [Ultratech]
Quote:
If you want something to be suspicious of, go for the penetration of small calibre shaped charge rounds (and HE, for that matter, but it's not as big an issue with them) in UT - penetration is linear with calibre, which is the general case. However, small warhead use up a disproportionate amount of their available mass and volume in fusing, and thus have less penetration than extrapolation from larger calibres would suggest. The HEMP rounds of 10-18.5mm have this allowed for (but making them imp seems off), but the 25mm shaped charge should arguably also have a penetration modifier of only (5), or reduced base damage.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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11-12-2019, 06:23 PM | #17 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: 25mm Payload Rifle [Ultratech]
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What I would actually do with Gyrocs is put them in disposable tubes that attached to another weapon's accessory rails and interfaced with its' targeting scope.
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11-12-2019, 07:29 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: 25mm Payload Rifle [Ultratech]
The sad thing about the Gyroc is that the 15mm ETC is just better (if much more expensive). Its ammunition is also cheaper for the damage ($4 base, +$12 for a viper, +$36 APEP), allowing it to deal 22d+2(3) pi damage with Skill 13 (+Acc on a successful skill roll) from 27,000 yards (at 3,000 yards/sec). By comparison, a APEP micromissile for a Gyroc is $95 and has a range/speed of 3,800, dealing only 6d(3) pi+ with the same skill.
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11-12-2019, 09:14 PM | #19 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: 25mm Payload Rifle [Ultratech]
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And yeah, the gyroc is, sadly, a fairly pitiful weapon. Granted, rifles wouldn't be that great if you had all your weapons designed to be loaded with 9mm Parabellum. "Hot" gyrocs would make some sense, with higher damage due to a higher sustained velocity, and possibly longer range if they are longer (and thus hold more propellant). This might allow gyrocs to more be competitive with conventional rifles, particularly if you adjust ETC down to a less-problematic x1.2 or x1.3 damage (+1/die) and range, reserving x1.5 for TL10's ETK. The fact gyroc projectiles need a special modification to become capable of getting the Viper/etc treatment, but bullets can get converted no problem, is also a bit problematic. Bullets should also be at least x10 to base cost, and arguably more (gyrocs already have most of the control surfaces to keep themselves stable in flight, so should need less modification than bullets, which will need those added and will need to deal with spin), before they can get a sensor suite installed.
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11-13-2019, 12:35 AM | #20 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: 25mm Payload Rifle [Ultratech]
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I could maybe see some use as a niche specialist weapon in a military force with power-armor soldiers who can spare the extra weight, or by specialist teams organized around that specific weapon in order to support the regular ground forces. At best, it fills a role similar to the automatic grenade launchers we have now, like the Mk 19 (Though at that point you might as well use the Assault Cannon). For most PC use, though, the UBGL probably does everything they'll need about as well and for a fraction of the cost and weight. The only time I see it being very useful for a PCs outside of a full-on military campaign is if they need to do some high-explosive sniper work from two-plus miles away, which doesn't seem like it would be that common of a thing. Last edited by Phoenix_Dragon; 11-13-2019 at 02:02 AM. |
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