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Old 11-30-2010, 08:30 AM   #41
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: [Space/Spaceships] TL9 nomad fleet - playable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
I'd build the 'basic' flagship somewhat differently. My choices are heavily influenced with not being used to 1/3 systems. Here's my take:

TL 9^
dST/HP 700
HT 14
Hnd/SR -4 / 5
setting)
Move 0.1G/c (can be improved with more/better drives)
LWt 1,000,000 (assuming SM+14)
Load 175,114 (given by ss.xls)
SM+14 (scaleable, but taken 14 in case there is no artificial gravity generators in the
Occ 1,140+0SV (assuming SM+14 yadda yadda)
dDR 150
Range 1x
Cost around $83.01 B (excluding two systems that are left unspecified)

Front:
1. Armor - Advanced Metallic Laminate, 150dDR
2. Control Room, Computer: C9 Comm/Sensor: 12 Stations: 40 [2]
3. Habitat, 6,000 Cabins [2] (unspecified; need to figure out the ratios and life support; either way, at least 3k people should live there)
4. Cargo Hold (primarily for food and other necessities), 50,000 Tons
5. Unspecified
6. Unspecified
Center:
1. Armor
2. (!)Weapon Battery - Medium 3 Weapon Mounts (or whatever, but need at least some weapons) [2]
3. Cargo Hold, 50,000 Tons (raw materials and/or parts for smaller craft, but also other stuff depending on needs)
4. (!)Factory - Fabricator $50,000,000/Hr (general-purpose) [2]
5. Hangar Bay Launch: 2,000 ton/min / Cap.: 30,000 Tons (linked to factory!) [2]
6. External Clamp (for docking ops)
Rear:
1. Armor
2. Fuel Tank 50,000 Tons of Hyperspace Fuel
3. (!) Reactionless Engine - Rotary or some other appropriate 0.1G [2]
4. (!) Stardrive - Hyperdrive or some other, FTL-1 [2]
5. (!) Mining facility (for fuel and other stuff) 5,000 Tons/Hr [2]
6. (!) Refinery 15,000 Tons/Hr (for fuel and other stuff) [2]
Core:
1. Open Space, 100 Areas (5 Acres) [2]
2. Power Plant - Fusion, 2 Power Points [2]
So, things I'd change other than turning some of those systems into miniatures...
-You don't need a lot of cargo for food storage. The ship is self-sufficient for food. Some stockpile is good, maybe, but not so much.
-You really don't need a full SM+14 battery for a civilian ship! Make it a tertiary or at most secondary battery with most of the weapons stripped out. Then it replaces one of your cargo bays.
-External clamp? What possible circumstances would make it a good idea to use that?
-Probably put some habitat or the control room in the core and the open space outside, but YMMV.
-I'd definitely offload the mining role onto parasite craft.

Also, I definitely think downsizing the control room and refinery is a good idea. You've got 3 times as much refining capacity as your mining system can feed, and this barge doesn't need the handling or the bridge stations.
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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Note that unless modified with another reactor, such a ship can only operate two of the following systems at a time: STL, FTL, weapons, Mining, Refinery, Factory. Not a big deal outside emergencies, but there might be situations where either the first three or the last three need to be active at a time. It's would also be very convenient to refine the materials, build stuff, and accelerate simultaneously after a mining operation.
I wouldn't design a very civilian craft for combat jumping, personally. And picking two of the refinery, factory, and engines doesn't sound bad. You've convinced me on a full reactor, though.

Oh, and if you fit a reduced STL drive, refinery, and weapons bay, and make the obvious recognition that one full PP = 3 1/3PP, you can run any of the combinations you want to off of a single full fusion reactor. Though you may regret the reduced STL if you're getting this thing into fights.
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Old 11-30-2010, 08:51 AM   #42
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Default Re: [Space/Spaceships] TL9 nomad fleet - playable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh
I'd build the 'basic' flagship somewhat differently. My choices are heavily influenced with not being used to 1/3 systems. Here's my take:
You didn't specify the type of artifical gravity system for the craft. If you're using spin gravity then you need to move the Open Space out of the Core section since spin grav doesn't apply to Core sections.
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:43 AM   #43
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Default Re: [Space/Spaceships] TL9 nomad fleet - playable?

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
So, things I'd change other than turning some of those systems into miniatures...
-You don't need a lot of cargo for food storage. The ship is self-sufficient for food. Some stockpile is good, maybe, but not so much.
Maybe, but we must also account for clothes, toothpaste, and all the other needful things. 8 tons per person might be too much (that is, if we approximate population to 6k per habitat, which it of course isn't), but it might include something we didn't think of.
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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
-You really don't need a full SM+14 battery for a civilian ship! Make it a tertiary or at most secondary battery with most of the weapons stripped out. Then it replaces one of your cargo bays.
Well, depends. In a cinematic universe full of pirates and hyperspace monsters, you're probably wrong. In anything more peaceful, you are right.
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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
-External clamp? What possible circumstances would make it a good idea to use that?
Pretty many, actually. Towing damaged craft, for one thing (important if all fleet craft only have on STL and one FTL drive!). Using instead of a hangar for larger craft. Keeping a craft under construction attached externally too.
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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
-Probably put some habitat or the control room in the core and the open space outside, but YMMV.
Maybe. Depends on gravity preferences (gravgen leads to core habitat; rotary leads to non-core habitats).
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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
-I'd definitely offload the mining role onto parasite craft.
Not so sure about it. Probably combining mining shuttle mining and flagship mining would work too. After all, relying on shuttle mining too much tends to clutter the hangars.

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Also, I definitely think downsizing the control room and refinery is a good idea. You've got 3 times as much refining capacity as your mining system can feed, and this barge doesn't need the handling or the bridge stations.
Downsizing the refinery to either 1/3 (if solo-mining) or 2/3 (if using combined mining) is definitely a good choice. I'm not sure downsizing Hnd (and computer, and sensors!) is a good idea, especially if it's meant to be self-sufficient in terms of scouting too.

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
I wouldn't design a very civilian craft for combat jumping, personally. And picking two of the refinery, factory, and engines doesn't sound bad. You've convinced me on a full reactor, though.
Really depends on the exact mechanics of FTL. For a BSG style flagship, where jump preparation relies on computers only, and the jump itself takes seconds, it is probably affordable to never use more than two of (FTL, STL, weapon).

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Oh, and if you fit a reduced STL drive, refinery, and weapons bay, and make the obvious recognition that one full PP = 3 1/3PP, you can run any of the combinations you want to off of a single full fusion reactor. Though you may regret the reduced STL if you're getting this thing into fights.
Homeworld taught me how painful it is to have a slow-moving refinery - doesn't matter if the refining ship itself is the miner, or if it just tries to get closer to the mining craft swarm. Either way, time wasted moving is time of reduced ore production.
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:44 AM   #44
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Default Re: [Space/Spaceships] TL9 nomad fleet - playable?

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You didn't specify the type of artifical gravity system for the craft. If you're using spin gravity then you need to move the Open Space out of the Core section since spin grav doesn't apply to Core sections.
Don't plants have easier time growing in microgravity? Might need to move stuff for rotary gravity indeed.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:15 AM   #45
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Default Re: [Space/Spaceships] TL9 nomad fleet - playable?

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Don't plants have easier time growing in microgravity? Might need to move stuff for rotary gravity indeed.
Plants might, but unless you've got a population of only vegitarians then your open spaces will also include livestock that will need gravity just as the other inhabitants need gravity.

---

Honestly, this thread has played itself out for now. Unless the OP wants to set some basic campaign settings rules, we're just going to be arguing for arguing. It's just too important to know how FTL functions (warp, jump, wormhole, probability, etc), what type of artificial gravity is used (spin or generators), are reactionless thrusters available, etc. Without those settings in place, the design of ships just isn't an effective discussion and there's no way to determine if it's even playable.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:18 AM   #46
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Default Re: [Space/Spaceships] TL9 nomad fleet - playable?

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Originally Posted by cccwebs View Post
Honestly, this thread has played itself out for now. Unless the OP wants to set some basic campaign settings rules, we're just going to be arguing for arguing. It's just too important to know how FTL functions (warp, jump, wormhole, probability, etc), what type of artificial gravity is used (spin or generators), are reactionless thrusters available, etc. Without those settings in place, the design of ships just isn't an effective discussion and there's no way to determine if it's even playable.
Actually, I'm finding the replies quite interesting. Such as the issues of storage per person (incomplete), or the necessities of properly scaling refineries (I haven't noticed that refineries are so much more productive than mining systems before).
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:20 AM   #47
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Default Re: [Space/Spaceships] TL9 nomad fleet - playable?

GURPS Biotech has a campaign seed that's in this vein.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:34 AM   #48
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Default Re: [Space/Spaceships] TL9 nomad fleet - playable?

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Actually, I'm finding the replies quite interesting. Such as the issues of storage per person (incomplete), or the necessities of properly scaling refineries (I haven't noticed that refineries are so much more productive than mining systems before).
Keep in mind that Spaceships are using Mining and Refineries as completely seperate systems. Mining is for both the extraction and processing of solid rock/ore where refineries are for the extraction and processing of ice/liquids/gasses. The biggest problem is that the ratings listed seem to be for the amount of finished product produced per hour. The GM will have to determine the ratio of raw materials to refined materials. The chemical refineries are more efficient, but I don't have the actual knowledge if that fits in line with RL or not.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:36 AM   #49
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Default Re: [Space/Spaceships] TL9 nomad fleet - playable?

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GURPS Biotech has a campaign seed that's in this vein.
And it's a very interesting campaign seed. I like the idea of developing biotechnologies because of the restriction of inorganic materials.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:42 AM   #50
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Default Re: [Space/Spaceships] TL9 nomad fleet - playable?

I've personally always wanted to run a game with a really nomadic space-dwelling society. Like THS's Gypsy Angels after a few centuries or Simmon's Ousters. Living in Oort clouds in a vacuum ecosystem.

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