[UT, HT, Basic] Explosive rounds & damage "blow-through"

[The_Ryujin]

Given the description I'd say that the round probably has an mild explosive core with a delayed impact fuse. Basically it hits and then a split second later the core explodes with just enough force to fragment the bullet causing a massive and messy wound channel.

Based on the fact that the round is basically a 12 gauge slug I plugged the stats for one with a 9in barrel into Douglas's Ballistic Spreadsheet with an increased expansion ratio and got 3D+1 with a wound channel modifier of 7.2! I think that would pretty much give what you're looking for. If you use this then don't bother with the 0.5 AD since the deceased penetration is already taken into account (it would of been 4D with a WCM of 3.3 on if it didn't expand).

Stats for it would look something like:

TL Name          Damage    Acc  Range    Weight   ROF   Shots   ST  Bulk   Rcl   Cost   LC 
9 shotgun pistol 3D+1 {7.2} 3  225/1900  5.2/0.6   3    6(10i)   12  -5     6     820    2

Hope that helps

[LokRobster]

The_Ryugen's gun stats do seem about right; I was fixin to work through the Cole Ballistic Spreadsheet to see what it'd generate, so thanks! Basically 3d+1, with the 7x wound modifier and the DR is unmodified.

Then I'll drop the fragmentation and explosive linked damage for regular purposes (or allow that they're rolled into the 7x multiplier) and not worry about explosions outside a target. In firefights the author never talks about shrapnel, or even about anyone being affected by concussion; the "3m gap in a dead log" incident can just be a GM special effect.

[The_Ryujin]

Yeah, the explosion would be just enough to cause the extreme wounding effect so it's part of the x7 modifier, Now for exit shrapnel, yeah those fragments are gonna have a spread so large that unless some else is like taped to the backside whoever is shot by this thing I wouldn't worry about it.

Also it looks like the forum has been invaded by Ze Russians while I was typing this.

[DouglasCole]

Without doubting that the slug calculates a x7 damage multiplier, I'd question whether a typical hit of 10 HP will take a person from nuthin' to auto-death in any average, shot.

If any hit to the VITALS is only worth a x3, then one has to question the impact of that x7 to the game.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Without doubting that the slug calculates a x7 damage multiplier, I'd question whether a typical hit of 10 HP will take a person from nuthin' to auto-death in any average, shot.

If any hit to the VITALS is only worth a x3, then one has to question the impact of that x7 to the game.

Well presumably he's considering the game effects of a weapon that instantly kills humans. Low damage and enormous wounding is safer huge damage and low wounding, IMO.

[LokRobster]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Without doubting that the slug calculates a x7 damage multiplier, I'd question whether a typical hit of 10 HP will take a person from nuthin' to auto-death in any average, shot.

If any hit to the VITALS is only worth a x3, then one has to question the impact of that x7 to the game.

An exploding 12 gauge slug to the vitals does 10x damage FTW?

:-)

[The_Ryujin]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Without doubting that the slug calculates a x7 damage multiplier, I'd question whether a typical hit of 10 HP will take a person from nuthin' to auto-death in any average, shot.

If any hit to the VITALS is only worth a x3, then one has to question the impact of that x7 to the game.

I used the listed stats for a 12 gauge slug on your spread sheet and just bumped the expansion ratio up to 2 and shorten the barrel to 9ins to get that figure which seems to be in line with what the description LokRobster gave of the weapons capabilities (the base line stats you listed for a JHP slug give 4d+2 {5.2}).

Now granted a 7x modifier is pretty huge but if this thing can burst through a 4m long beastie with enough force to blow it's hind leg off at the end I would imagine it's gotta have one hell of a wounding modifier.

[LokRobster]

Actually this winds back to my original question-ish - where does the exploding happen? I did find in Basic pg 415 where the linked ex damage does happen internally, counting as a 'vitals' blow for 3x damage, but it doesn't mention the fragmentation cutting damage.

(using UT's Pistol Shotgun, 4d pi++ with HE 18.5mm rounds; 2d+2 cr ex, 1d frags)

Assuming the blackjacket Sternverein Security Trooper uses his 4d pi++ (0.5) to execute an unarmored Spacer Scum Guy who has been found guilty of Piracy by the Court of Mercy on Occuch: Average damage would be 26, figuring the DR1 subtracted for the fractional armor divisor, 3.5 damage per die and multiplying the 2x for pi++ penetrating damage. (does any of that blow through, or the target takes the full 26?)

Then the thang explodes inside SSGuy for 2d+2, which is 3x damage for occurring internally, for another 27 points of damage.

And finally the fragments go flying around to cut his innards up some more for 1d, again with the 3x damage inside him, so 10 points, rounding down the 0.5. (i guess it's still inside, or did it blow through?)

Total for the TL9 UT exploding slug is 60 points of damage. Does this seem right?

or, with the above Ryujin super-slugger the 3d+1 {7.2x}, will give 75 points on average, figuring no blowthrough. That does add up to a bit more!

[The_Ryujin]

Well it depends on how the bullet explodes.

In my example the bullet hits the target triggering a delayed action fuse that explodes a split second later with just enough force to expand the bullet into fragments creating a wider wound channel. In this case the game mechanic side of the explosive is just "fluff" to explain why the round expands to a large enough degree to blow someone apart so the effects of the explosion are just there to give the x7.2 damage.

With my version you get an average of 11 points of penetrating damage, against Joe "No armor" Average with HP10 it blows through with 1pt to spare doing a base of 10hp of injury but the effects of the round bursting bump this up to a nightmarish 72pts of damage instantly killing him and almost doing enough damage to completely blow apart his body! For all intents and purposes this guy is blown in half! My stats don't quite give the level of penetration the book gave but the damaging effects are pretty close but this version isn't exactly RAW safe.

Course one thing to keep in mind with the wound modifier my figure gives is that Doug's sheet was written with 3rd in mind, he uses a different method to model a piercing attacks wound modifier now but in so far as I know he hasn't made the full thing public yet.

Now with the Ultra-Tech Pistol Shotgun model the round will explode like how a HE shell from an autocannon does, it also explodes a slit second after impact but only this time the explosion is major enough to damage on it's own. Basically for this, just use the bullets damage roll just to see if it penetrates and if it does then just use the explosive damage to figure the injury with no blow through. This is do to the fact that for the most part the explosion is gonna rip apart the round and expand faster then the bullets is traveling pretty much making what's left of it just frag damage at this point.

So here against Mr. Average there's no point to even roll piercing damage at all if you hit, just roll the explosive damagex3 and give him a instant frag hit and roll to see if he's hit by more at skill 15. Now by RAW there's nothing that says that an explosive going off inside someone increases the chance that more frag hits then if the explosive goes off in contact with someone so here you need to make a judgment call if you go by RAW or decide that in that case the effective rcl of frag hits goes down from 3 to a lower number. So all in all in this example he takes an average of 27pts of internal damage from the explosive and extra 3.5pts per frag hit. This guy now has to make at lest his two death checks, roll for a major wound and then to roll to see if he stays conscious assuming he survives and will have to make a HT roll every minute or bleed out (or every 10sec if using Martial Arts rules for bleeding from vital hits). This version of the gun is RAW safe but doesn't quite give the effects of the book.

[DouglasCole]

My method has only changed in a few minor ways. Nothing other than tweaks. I'm happy to provide a slightly newer sheet.