Cheat card regarding Hand requirement

[Illiniwek]

I've read the other Cheat threads and not sure if they answer my question. Here is the scenario:

My (11-year old) daughter's Munchkin was carrying two 1-hand weapons. She then played "Two-Handed" on one of the weapons with a Cheat card. Therefore, the extra hand that she would need to carry a 1-hand weapon and the now-modified 2-hand weapon has been "Cheat-ed". Is this correct?

Now play an Amulet of Dexterity to gain another hand, and a Munchkin could be playing two 1-hand weapons and the one, cheated 2-hand weapon!

Or does the Cheat card played on the modified 2-hand weapon eliminate the need to use any hand slots to wield it? If this is the case, with an Amulet of Dexterity, a Munchkin could wield three 1-hand weapons and the cheated 2-hand weapon!

In case you were wondering, my 11-year old kicked my butt! It was a pity she was sent to bed without supper that night! (Easy there, Child Protective Services, just kidding!)

[Andrew Hackard]

The Cheat! card removes any Hand requirements for the weapon -- it's as though it's floating next to you. (Similarly, using Cheat! with Headgear doesn't take up the Headgear slot, using Cheat! with Footgear doesn't take up the Footgear slot, etc.) If there are gender/Class/Race requirements or prohibitions on an item, Cheat! overrides those as well. And a Big item played with Cheat! doesn't slow you down.

That doesn't say that it removes these properties from items; Headgear is still Headgear, a Big item is still a Big item, and so on. If you're cursed to lose your Headgear, and the only Headgear you have is Cheated, you still have to lose it.

[MunchkinMan]

Originally Posted by Illiniwek

Or does the Cheat card played on the modified 2-hand weapon eliminate the need to use any hand slots to wield it? If this is the case, with an Amulet of Dexterity, a Munchkin could wield three 1-hand weapons and the cheated 2-hand weapon!

Yes, that's how it would work. The Cheat card removes the restrictions on the Item it's attached to, which means that it no longer takes up a slot (Armor, Headgear or Footgear) doesn't require Hands, no longer has any Class/Race/Sex restrictions (basically, it doesn't matter what you are, you can use it) and if it has multiple Bonuses depending on the user's Race/Class/Sex, then it gives the biggest possible bonus.

In other words, if there was an Item that was Armor, required a Hand, and was only usable by a Female Elven Cleric, a Male Dwarven Thief already wearing Armor and wielding two 1-Hand weapons could play Cheat! on this hypothetical Item and use it.

In case you were wondering, my 11-year old kicked my butt! It was a pity she was sent to bed without supper that night! (Easy there, Child Protective Services, just kidding!)

I've yet to get beaten by my kids at any Munchkin game. They've gotten close, but not yet. On the plus side, they don't mope or whine when they lose. :-)

[ArcadianRefugee]

Please also note that not only does Cheat! remove the requirements for an Item's usage, it gives you the best possible version of that usage.

For instance, if you have a weapon that is "+1 one-handed, +4 if used two -handed" and you Cheat it, you get to use it "two-handed" even though it isn't taking up -any- Hand slots.

[NOTE FOR MUNCHKIN PLAYERS: This is different from the card game, unless things have changed without my knowledge, in that Cheat in the card game only grants you minimum access to the Item.]

[Jenetiks]

I'm a little lost about the hand requirements for cards like the "Amulet of Dexterity". It clearly states on the card 'Gives you one extra Hand', but on the bottom of the card it says '-1 Hand'. Can someone clarify this to me?

[MunchkinMan]

Items that require the use of a hand say that they use a Hand or 2 Hands. An Item that gives you hand will say that it uses -1 Hand. Since you have 2 Hands of your own, you can use 2 Hands worth of Items. For example, let's say you have 3 Items that each use 1 Hand, and one Item which gives you a hand (i.e., uses -1 Hand). So, now you can add up the number of Hands used by your Item. We get 1 + 1 + 1 - 1 = 3 - 1 = 2, which is less than or equal to the number of Hands that you have, and that means that because of the Item that gives you a Hand (i.e., uses -1 Hand), you can use 3 Hands worth of Items.

[Brf]

It "uses" -1 hand (minus 1).
Therefore, it gives you back an extra hand, rather than using up 1.

[Jenetiks]

Thanks a lot this came up when me and my buddies were playing MQ.

[n.e.m.e.z.i.d.a]

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

Yes, that's how it would work. The Cheat card removes the restrictions on the Item it's attached to, which means that it no longer takes up a slot (Armor, Headgear or Footgear) doesn't require Hands, no longer has any Class/Race/Sex restrictions (basically, it doesn't matter what you are, you can use it) and if it has multiple Bonuses depending on the user's Race/Class/Sex, then it gives the biggest possible bonus.

In other words, if there was an Item that was Armor, required a Hand, and was only usable by a Female Elven Cleric, a Male Dwarven Thief already wearing Armor and wielding two 1-Hand weapons could play Cheat! on this hypothetical Item and use it.



I've yet to get beaten by my kids at any Munchkin game. They've gotten close, but not yet. On the plus side, they don't mope or whine when they lose. :-)

Good day, MunchkinMan
Could you comment on the use of the card cheat. Earlier you reported that clothes with cheat does not occupy hands (becomes weightless) - in fact, cheat changes clothes. But the description says that you can play this card - to make an action. There is no information about changing the state of the card. In addition, during looting, it is regarded as a separate card (it is not stuck to the gear) and the cheat is discarded when the gear is lost. Could you clarify exactly where you found the information that the thing with the cheat ceases to hold hands? (it still has a price, you can lose it).

[Andrew Hackard]

Hi, nemezdia (forgive me for omitting all those periods). I’m answering your question because I want to be sure you’re aware of a couple of things.

First, this specific thread is about the Cheat card in Munchkin Quest, not Munchkin the card game. As such, a couple of the rulings here are different from how we would rule in the Munchkin game. (For instance, Cheat! in Munchkin does not automatically give the highest possible bonus.) However, your specific question applies to both games.

Second, MunchkinMan is one of our volunteer representatives and is authorized to give official rulings. That means that, in the absence of any late contradictory information, or disclaimers in his posts, his answers are presumed to be accurate. Asking him to explain is fine; demanding a precise page and citation oversteps just a bit. Sometimes the reason is “that’s the way we (usually meaning Steve) have always said it works.”

So, on to your question, which I think goes to a common misunderstanding of how the Cheat card works. It allows you to use an Item you otherwise could not use, regardless of the reason why. It lets you equip and use a second Armor or Headgear, for instance, or use an Elf-only Item when you are not an Elf. Relevant to your question, it allows you to equip and use a Hand Item when you are already using two Hands. What it does not do is say that you aren’t using your Hands for that Item; it is not “floating,” as you put it. You are using two Hands to wield three Hands’ worth of Items (or more!).

Is this clearer? If your question is about the Munchkin card game, as I suspect it is, we should continue this conversation in the main Munchkin forum, rather than in a five-year-old thread about Munchkin Quest.