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Old 04-04-2018, 07:28 AM   #11
PenitentDemon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default Re: Relievers Created through "Midwife" attunement

Oh!!! Question! Is a Blessed Dead, Celestial enough it can contribute forces to help create a new reliever, I could definitely see them doing so and being affectionate, if not particularly able to help their "offspring"
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:14 AM   #12
thorr-kan
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Default Re: Relievers Created through "Midwife" attunement

Quote:
Originally Posted by PenitentDemon View Post
Oh!!! Question! Is a Blessed Dead, Celestial enough it can contribute forces to help create a new reliever, I could definitely see them doing so and being affectionate, if not particularly able to help their "offspring"
Hm. That's an interesting question. I'm glad you asked that question.

The attunement says "donated Forces of two or more celestials to create a reliever." Humans are not celestials, even blessed souls. However, blessed souls are treated as celestials for a lot of effects. Reply hazy, try again later?

Alternatively, a Superior probably could. I think it is technically possible; I don't know if it is morally possible.

Possibility first. Archangels can add forces to blessed souls to create Saints. Demon Princes can strip damned souls of Celestial Forces and make a demon (a new creature, not a changed human) from the remaining Forces. So Superior Force-manipulation of souls is a thing. Logically, one Force could be removed.

Morality (Ethics?) second. Archangels don't like to damage blessed souls. Stripping a Force would be damaging. However, free-will. If the blessed soul is really on board...well, maybe.

Morality loops back to the Midwife attunement, too. Would the attunement holder really be willing to damage a blessed soul?
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Old 04-10-2018, 08:00 PM   #13
PenitentDemon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default Re: Relievers Created through "Midwife" attunement

it would create more potential parents for new reliever's

but I think even Eli would deeply think about it. wheither to condone such a thing or not.

on one hand it gives a well spring of new force donor's.

on the other it is humanity wh othe war is ABOUT.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:07 AM   #14
Archangel Beth
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Frozen Wastelands of NH
Default Re: Relievers Created through "Midwife" attunement

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Originally Posted by thorr-kan View Post
Morality (Ethics?) second. Archangels don't like to damage blessed souls. Stripping a Force would be damaging. However, free-will. If the blessed soul is really on board...well, maybe.

Morality loops back to the Midwife attunement, too. Would the attunement holder really be willing to damage a blessed soul?
This. As with many things in In Nomine, "that doesn't happen (often)" is based on in-game reasons, not mechanics.

Other moral considerations:

Many blessed souls still have only 5 Forces! (Some may have only one CelForce! Fortunately, Midwife does allow you to pick the realm; you don't neeeeed CorpForces in Heaven, right?) Reducing a blessed soul to 4 Forces is probably something that makes angels uncomfortable. (HUMANS ARE ALREADY SO TIIIIINY! *sob*)

It's implied that Forces may carry memory impressions. On the one hand, yay, a proto-angel who's likely to be able to handle Earth better than the usual unworldly celestial, yes? On the other hand, do you really want to chance that human memetics will cause it to fledge Grigori? >_>

Humans and celestials have different mindsets. It might be very upsetting to a human to have their "child" (or part-child) fledge as something that goes against the human's ideals or otherwise upsets the human. ("Cold" Elohite, alien Kyriotate, running-into-danger Cherub or Malakite...) Archangels and Midwives are likely to have seen the trauma of this sort of thing at least once, and are going to be leery of risking it again.

Likewise, even a blessed soul might be overprotective of a reliever Helicopter parent in a gravity-optional environment... It's possible that it's not always healthy for the reliever to have a human parent, even if human memetics didn't transfer. Again, entities who can craft new relievers out of people's Forces have probably seen this become very upsetting at least once in their long, long lives.

(Obviously, GMs who like the idea of having human-parented relievers running around can tweak these potential issues! Forces may re-grow in Heaven more easily for humans. It may be Divinely Impossible for a reliever to fledge Grigori, and the angels are sure of that because Seraphim Say So And Seraphim Should Know. Human/reliever-child interactions may be well-enough understood that Elohite Counseling is invoked to make sure that there won't be any upsetting surprises, or at least to help resolve them.)



Anyway, sorry I haven't been around much. For various reasons, I've been taking care of my own offspring, and that's been taking a lot of time and spoons. (And then you feel bad about coming back after ghosting for so long, and blah.) But y'all are good about figuring this stuff out.

O:>
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:33 PM   #15
PenitentDemon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default Re: Relievers Created through "Midwife" attunement

it said in the corporeal player's guide that blessed and damned soul's are automaticly freed from the limit's of their potential forces from their mortal life.
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