[Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by ericthered

This is my one concern. Mental strength is a weird fit. I see where you were trying to go, but this equates a DX-based skill that has no other use with a Will-based skill that I expect will be frequently useful.

I suppose the one reason you might take polearm art instead is because your DX is higher than your will in the first place.

I just sort of have mixed feelings about it.

My guess is this this more-or-less setting a precedent, that magical tools like this can typically be used with Mental Strength. A skilled warrior will probably use Polearm Art (which defaults from Polearm at -3) for this, but a generalist magical tool user may instead opt to use Mental Strength (assuming it's generally available and doesn't require Trained by a Master or Weapon Master), as that is usable for a wide variety of magical tools of this nature. A typical warrior will probably use Mental Strength for it (again, assuming no prerequisites) - even with Will and DX at equal levels, getting an Easy skill like Mental Strength up to a reliable level is cheaper than getting an Average one like Polearm Art, and they aren't going to have Polearm skill high enough to reliably default from. Basically, for a character with both Will and DX at 10, Polearm-12 [8] and Mental Strength-12 [4] is easier to come by than Polearm-12 [8] and Polearm Art-12 [8]... although with our desert elves having an average DX of 11 and Will 10, I'd imagine they'll be more inclined toward Polearm Art than Mental Strength.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Varyon

My guess is this this more-or-less setting a precedent, that magical tools like this can typically be used with Mental Strength. A skilled warrior will probably use Polearm Art (which defaults from Polearm at -3) for this, but a generalist magical tool user may instead opt to use Mental Strength (assuming it's generally available and doesn't require Trained by a Master or Weapon Master), as that is usable for a wide variety of magical tools of this nature.

Basically this, yes.

Originally Posted by Varyon

A typical warrior will probably use Mental Strength for it (again, assuming no prerequisites) - even with Will and DX at equal levels, getting an Easy skill like Mental Strength up to a reliable level is cheaper than getting an Average one like Polearm Art, and they aren't going to have Polearm skill high enough to reliably default from. Basically, for a character with both Will and DX at 10, Polearm-12 [8] and Mental Strength-12 [4] is easier to come by than Polearm-12 [8] and Polearm Art-12 [8]... although with our desert elves having an average DX of 11 and Will 10, I'd imagine they'll be more inclined toward Polearm Art than Mental Strength.

I prefer to go with the idea (from RPK's page here, if you scroll down a bit) that the Art, Sport, and Combat forms of a skill all can be bought as techniques of each other (so e.g. you have Polearm and buy Polearm Art as an Average Technique, and can spend three points to get it up to the same skill level, or you can start with Polearm Art and buy up the Combat form as an Average technique).

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

I prefer to go with the idea (from RPK's page here, if you scroll down a bit) that the Art, Sport, and Combat forms of a skill all can be bought as techniques of each other (so e.g. you have Polearm and buy Polearm Art as an Average Technique, and can spend three points to get it up to the same skill level, or you can start with Polearm Art and buy up the Combat form as an Average technique).

That absolutely works, and would mean a lot of soldiers - even rank-and-file, provided these weapons are cheap enough to equip them - would opt for Polearm Art (or whatever their weapon uses) rather than Mental Strength. There may be an exception for phalanx soldiers and the like, however, as Shield-12 [8] + Spear-12 [8] + Mental Strength-12 [4] is a bit cheaper than Shield-12 [8] + Shield Art-12 [3] + Spear-12 [8] + Spear Art-12 [3] - basically the more Weapon Art skills the characters need for their magic items, the more likely Mental Strength will be taken. That would require such magic items to be cheap, at least relative to the wealth of their patrons/masters (the Goa'uld in the series didn't seem to have any issues keeping their Jaffa stocked with staff weapons, but then they were fantastically wealthy).

[Prince Charon]

So, thing that I was thinking of including but kept being tired and forgetting to mention it: While any fairly simple power technique used with this sort of equipment is going to have the same penalty whether you use the main skill (Polearm Art in this case) or Mental Strength, any technique which requires finesse is going to have a worse penalty to Mental Strength, because just brute-force shoving your Will at something is going to have limitations. So, while moving the wall or creating an updraft or downdraft is skill-4 for either skill, shaping a whirlwind might be -6 for Polearm Art, but -8 for mental Strength, or something like that.


Does that seem like it should work?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

So, thing that I was thinking of including but kept being tired and forgetting to mention it: While any fairly simple power technique used with this sort of equipment is going to have the same penalty whether you use the main skill (Polearm Art in this case) or Mental Strength, any technique which requires finesse is going to have a worse penalty to Mental Strength, because just brute-force shoving your Will at something is going to have limitations. So, while moving the wall or creating an updraft or downdraft is skill-4 for either skill, shaping a whirlwind might be -6 for Polearm Art, but -8 for mental Strength, or something like that.


Does that seem like it should work?

The typical use of Mental Strength is to defend yourself from supernatural mental assaults. If it were just using raw willpower, that would simply be a roll against Will; with it being a skill, I presume there's already a degree of finesse, with a skilled user specifically "shaping" their will to adapt to and more readily block the mental assault. A character relying on Will alone is essentially just wearing their Will as armor to tank such assaults; a character using Mental Strength instead shapes their Will into a shield to deflect them. So, I'd say it should probably be the same penalty. This is both a simpler way to handle it, and it doesn't give the Weapon Art skill/technique even more of an advantage (the more you limit Mental Strength, the less likely anyone will bother with it and will instead just buy up Weapon Art).

[Prince Charon]

OK, have made a couple of small edits to the post, per the suggestions made (and bumped up the cost from $800 to $1,000, due to this being G'annan's ace custom weapon). Please have a look to see if I missed anything, or there's something else that needs changing.

EDIT: Maybe I should re-edit the post so that the price and altered Parry for G'annan's personal weapon are listed separately, and the standard is what's in the stats?

[Prince Charon]

OK, I made another edit, since no-one objected to listing the modifications to G'annan's personal weapon separately, and because there was a note on Acc that I realized I'd left out. I don't think I'm making any further changes to it unless someone else has suggestions, though.


Thoughts on the next Question: I could ask about what the base TL of G'anna's people is, or about there position in interstellar/interdimensional politics, or I could ask some Question that one of you thinks needs to be asked that isn't either of these (or one that I was thinking about earlier, and have now forgotten beyond remembering that there was another question that I wanted to ask).

[Prince Charon]

Frolechi Question I

In my mind, I've been calling G'annan's people the Frolechi, with 'Frolec' being the region or planet that they call home. There are a few questions we could ask about them, and I've decided to start with their technology level. Obviously they have magical engineering, so TL^, but there ought to be a base TL to get a feel for what it all looks like, and what the non-magical tech can do. I'm currently thinking that they're at something like TL3^, but what do you think?


Please remember to clearly state your preferred option when you vote.

*******

Answer: Five votes for TL4^, which wins, and one vote for 'cosmetic TL1, practically TL9.'

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Frolechi Question I

I
*******

Answer: .

#.

I will say TL4^.

I suppose you could make a bardiche out of bronze at TL1 but historically it developed on our world at TL4. TL1 warriors probably wouldn't have enough armor to warrant heavy things like a bardiche.It does probably need a relatively long and involved history of warfare.

Also, there are few natural stopping points in mundane technology before TL4 even with magic but magic could certainly pre-empt steam engines and telegraphs.

[TGLS]

Cosmetically TL1, for practical purposes (i.e. medical tech, wealth, etc.) TL9