First session -- Speed/Range Table questions

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by apoc527

Iron sights are required to get any accuracy out of a modern firearm. Without iron sights, any "Aim" maneuver is at best, an educated guess.

And yet, I'm pretty sure there are weapons with positive Acc that lack sights.

Otherwise I agree. I just think there's something curious with respect to weapons without such features.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

And yet, I'm pretty sure there are weapons with positive Acc that lack sights.

Otherwise I agree. I just think there's something curious with respect to weapons without such features.

Can you point to a few? They might be special cases.

[apoc527]

Well, low tech bows for one. And didn't most flintlock smoothbores lack sights, at least the pistols? I can't think of many modern (rifled) firearms without some kind of iron sight though.

[Mr Frost]

Originally Posted by apoc527

Well, low tech bows for one. And didn't most flintlock smoothbores lack sights, at least the pistols? I can't think of many modern (rifled) firearms without some kind of iron sight though.

Indeed , the Brown Bess , Charleville and similar muskets indeed lacked any sights whatsoever .

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Can you point to a few? They might be special cases.

Well, I confess I'm a bit speculative. But many of the early firearms in Low Tech? Blunderbuss and arquebus and the like? Bombards and Gonnes? I think some of these would not have anything recognizable as sights.

[doulos05]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Tactical Shooting indicates that misaligned iron sights halve acc and ruined sights zero it. Which seems a little odd, since I didn't think all guns with non-zero acc had sights at all.

I'd imagine that misaligned or ruined sights, feeding inaccurate and useless information, would be really bad for accuracy. Especially if you were trained to reflexively trust the input they were providing.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Well, I confess I'm a bit speculative. But many of the early firearms in Low Tech? Blunderbuss and arquebus and the like? Bombards and Gonnes? I think some of these would not have anything recognizable as sights.

Yeah, the only way you could misalign these is to have a bent barrel.

Still, you can see that looking down the barrel, with a long or short barrel, is a kind of alignment procedure for which longer is better (same with arrows), but that isn't really subject to the rules for degradation.

So you have a case where if you have special sighting tools, they can go bad. If you don't, they can't and the rule for having special tools doesn't apply.

In other terms, the Venn diagrams don't completely overlap.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Again, backing up Ulzgoroth on this one: The notes about "sights" on p. B364 are most likely short for "laser sights," "collimating sights," "targeting sights," "computer-aided HUD sights," etc. Iron sights provide only the base Acc and are assumed.

yet no one can point to a single refreaces in any of the GURPS book to back this up? where as the most reasonable reading is sites are exactly what most people would call a sight... aka iron sights.

Not even GURPS High Tech, or Tactcial Shooting?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by doulos05

I'd imagine that misaligned or ruined sights, feeding inaccurate and useless information, would be really bad for accuracy. Especially if you were trained to reflexively trust the input they were providing.

Yeah, using misaligned sights is going to throw you off certainly. Outright broken sights you wouldn't be fooled by, though.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

yet no one can point to a single refreaces in any of the GURPS book to back this up? where as the most reasonable reading is sites are exactly what most people would call a sight... aka iron sights.

Not even GURPS High Tech, or Tactcial Shooting?

When you damage iron sights Acc is altered directly, rather than losing a bonus.

Speaking of which, what bonus do you give for characters using the irons as well as aiming? Where did you get the number?