Switching from 3e to 4e after long break from gurps

[Boomerang]

Hi, new here. I stopped playing gurps 3e about 10 years ago and I have gone through periods of not gaming as well as trying other systems (without much success). Eventually I found a stable group who play Pathfinder and gamed with them for four years and they are interested in playing gurps.

So I want to run a 4e game but I have a few challenges.

#1 I haven't been a GM for years and I am a bit rusty.

#2 I am unfamiliar with 4e rules.

#3 My players have only played d20 based systems.

#4 I want to demonstrate the flexibility of the rules so we are starting out as realistic soldiers in the Vietnam war and then slowly bringing in psionics and powers to end up with a superhero team but the psionics rules are very different to 3e.

#5 One of the players is new to RPGs.

Any general advice would be appreciated!

[Maz]

I don't have time for a lengthy answer so I will just give a few short ones. I'm sure others will have more fulfilling responses.


If your players are used to Pathfinder and other D20 systems. They will not be prepared for the level of detail GURPS offers.
I would strongly advice that you start out with GURPS Lite, which is free (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/). You can hand it out to your players. GURPS Lite contains everything you need to create semi-realistic modern day people. And won't overwhelm your players.

Secondly get the free PDF Skill categries: http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/downloa...Categories.pdf It organise the skills a bit like the 3e compendium and will be a huge help to you AND your players.

Since your an old 3e player you might also get something from looking at the GURPS Update pdf which discuss the changes from 3e to 4e: http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/resources/4eupdate.pdf
You might not need to convert characters from 3e to 4e, but trying to do so might help you ease into the way 4e handles things. (Which isn't that different, but still).


----

As a final, more general advice, discuss the genre and style of play you want with the players. Most d20-systems have a lot of play-style assumptions written into the rules. GURPS does not. It's a toolset where you can ad or remove rules as you see fit. So it becomes even more important to get on the same page. Should players track every bullet fired? Should you care about exact encumbrance? Is it OK to be able to use Dodge against bullets? can we expect downtime to heal up after fights? How big a part should die play in social encounters? And so on.

[Boomerang]

Thanks, everything you said sounds good, especially focusing on gurps lite.

I designed the characters and gave them all different roles e.g. scout, commander (face), demolitions guy etc.

I've talked to them about the lethality of gurps versus d20 games and emphasised the importance of being cautious, particularly in a realistic setting but didn't even think of the other stuff.

[johndallman]

A few things to add:

Players used to d20 systems will probably be surprised by how hard it is to hit with GURPS ranged weapons, and shocked by the deadliness of high-tech military firearms. Expecting to take an occasional hit without being seriously wounded is normal in D&D and Pathfinder, but with Vietnam-period rifles, a hit will usually take you out of the fight.

Rather than have your players learn this the hard way, it's a good idea to run some trial combats before you start the game, so that everyone can get used to the combat system and appropriate tactics, and adjust their character designs appropriately.

GURPS is relatively easy to teach to a player new to RPGs, because there's only one mechanic: roll 3d6, add them up, wanting a low total. They tell you what they want to do, and you tell them which number to roll against. As they learn the system, they don't need to ask you so many questions.

In 4e, psionics is built on top of the advantages system, rather than being its own system. The psionics implementation in Basic is a bit sketchy, because of the limitations of space, but there's a much more complete one in GURPS Psionic Powers, available from Warehouse 23. That feels and plays rather more like 3e psionics.

[RogerBW]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Players used to d20 systems will probably be surprised by how hard it is to hit with GURPS ranged weapons, and shocked by the deadliness of high-tech military firearms. Expecting to take an occasional hit without being seriously wounded is normal in D&D and Pathfinder, but with Vietnam-period rifles, a hit will usually take you out of the fight.

In particular, I see D&D-type combat as basically attritional: you hit them and they lose hit points, they hit you and you lose hit points, and the one who hits more often and/or has more hit points is likely to win. In GURPS combat, the combatant who gets hit first is probably going to lose, almost at once. (You can change this with rule options and the right advantages, as for example Dungeon Fantasy does, but that's not the standard GURPS way.)

[Boomerang]

Originally Posted by johndallman

A few things to add:

Players used to d20 systems will probably be surprised by how hard it is to hit with GURPS ranged weapons, and shocked by the deadliness of high-tech military firearms. Expecting to take an occasional hit without being seriously wounded is normal in D&D and Pathfinder, but with Vietnam-period rifles, a hit will usually take you out of the fight.

Rather than have your players learn this the hard way, it's a good idea to run some trial combats before you start the game, so that everyone can get used to the combat system and appropriate tactics, and adjust their character designs appropriately.

GURPS is relatively easy to teach to a player new to RPGs, because there's only one mechanic: roll 3d6, add them up, wanting a low total. They tell you what they want to do, and you tell them which number to roll against. As they learn the system, they don't need to ask you so many questions.

In 4e, psionics is built on top of the advantages system, rather than being its own system. The psionics implementation in Basic is a bit sketchy, because of the limitations of space, but there's a much more complete one in GURPS Psionic Powers, available from Warehouse 23. That feels and plays rather more like 3e psionics.

Good to know about psionic powers. I liked the 3e psionics rules alot, they seemed more elegant although overpowered.

[Edges]

If the goal is to ease your friends into GURPS from Pathfinder, "realistic soldiers in the Vietnam war" might not be the best approach. It might seem simpler at first glance. But a war zone with high tech weapons, little to no armor, and no magic healing, is an unforgiving recipe. Why not use something like Dungeon Fantasy that is GURPS's take on Pathfinder-like gaming? If learning the magic system is too much all at once, tell the players that they can only pick from the few templates that you are comfortable with at first (maybe the knight, scout, and thief).

Having said that, Vietnam is still doable. I would suggest giving the characters the Luck advantage or some equivalent. Also, GURPS Psionic Powers is a nice plug-and-play system for psionics in 4e.

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by Edges

If the goal is to ease your friends into GURPS from Pathfinder, "realistic soldiers in the Vietnam war" might not be the best approach. It might seem simpler at first glance. But a war zone with high tech weapons, little to no armor, and no magic healing, is an unforgiving recipe. Why not use something like Dungeon Fantasy that is GURPS's take on Pathfinder-like gaming? If learning the magic system is too much all at once, tell the players that they can only pick from the few templates that you are comfortable with at first (maybe the knight, scout, and thief).

Having said that, Vietnam is still doable. I would suggest giving the characters the Luck advantage or some equivalent. Also, GURPS Psionic Powers is a nice plug-and-play system for psionics in 4e.

Yeah. I think this is good advice. You can use the pre-made templates to help them build their characters. Also, you could then drop them into a pre-made adventure like Caravan to Erin Aris or Mirror of the Fire Demon.

I also think GURPS Psionic Powers is an excellent book.

[Dammann]

Character points are a little different. A 100 point 3e character is probably a 150 point 4e character. It makes character building more finely grained and gives flexibility, but if you go in with 3e expectations, you might see less capable PCs on 100 points than what you had in mind.

[Dammann]

GURPS Seals in Vietnam might be useful, too.