Dungeon Fantasy and Psis

[Sense of Duty (Kittens)]

I finally purchased DF 14 and found it an intesting oddity, but the social ramifications of the presence of Psis are glossed over. Shouldn't they have a Social Stigma, considering their rarity, propensity to summon troublesome psychic phenomena, and inexplicable powers? Wouldn't Mage's Guilds try to oppose them?

Weird Dreams is a neat Perk. It would also be appropriate for clerics.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Sense of Duty (Kittens)

the social ramifications [...] are glossed over.

<tone shocked=tofindgamblinggoingonhere>In DF? How can that be?</tone>

Originally Posted by Sense of Duty (Kittens)

Shouldn't they have a Social Stigma, considering their rarity, propensity to summon troublesome psychic phenomena, and inexplicable powers?

Nobody, not even demonologists or necromancers, is required to have SS. And if the guys who deal directly with demons and the undead on the daily basis don't have it, then neither should the guys who are distantly associated with Elder Things. However, you certainly make a cogent case for SS as an option for psis.

Originally Posted by Sense of Duty (Kittens)

Wouldn't Mage's Guilds try to oppose them?

Why should they? Do wizards oppose clerics and vice versa? Do swashbucklers, knights, and martial artists oppose one another? I can see rivalries between individual organizations of each against the other, but I don't see universal opposition.

[Sense of Duty (Kittens)]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

Why should they? Do wizards oppose clerics and vice versa? Do swashbucklers, knights, and martial artists oppose one another? I can see rivalries between individual organizations of each against the other, but I don't see universal opposition.

There are settings where wizards and clerics get into philosophical disputes. Note the optional Social Stigma (Excommunicated) on the Wizard template. Psi is a bizarre force famous for its resistance to magery, and guilds tend to suppress opposing forces.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Sense of Duty (Kittens)

I finally purchased DF 14 and found it an intesting oddity, but the social ramifications of the presence of Psis are glossed over. .

Does DF have social ramifications? Aren't towns just places where you got to buy gear, get drunk and have people wander in with treasure maps?

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Sense of Duty (Kittens)

There are settings where wizards and clerics get into philosophical disputes.

Certainly. There's not particular indication that DF is positively intended to be one of them.

Originally Posted by Sense of Duty (Kittens)

Note the optional Social Stigma (Excommunicated) on the Wizard template.

Note that it's optional. Note, in fact, that Social Stigma is optional everywhere it appears save for a couple of explicitly evil ones. Even, I repeat, for demonologists and necromancers, who would appear to have a bigger ick factor and constitute a more clear and present danger than psis. Weird and possibly dangerous is clearly a criterion for having it available as an option, and I agree that it would be a good option for psis. I'd totally allow a psi to have a stigma in any game I ran. It is not good enough to require it for an entire profession [1].



1. ...with the eternal caveat that anything that you decide to do in your own campaign is OK. I'm just saying that there's insufficient reason for DF as a system to require psis to have a social stigma.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Sense of Duty (Kittens)

I finally purchased DF 14 and found it an interesting oddity, but the social ramifications of the presence of Psis are glossed over. Shouldn't they have a Social Stigma, considering their rarity, propensity to summon troublesome psychic phenomena, and inexplicable powers? Wouldn't Mage's Guilds try to oppose them?

Its' Dungeon Fantasy. The Dungeon doesn't care in the slightest and it only matters in Town if it negatively affects your ability to sell the phat lootz.

[Mailanka]

"Hmmmm," complained the GURPS player.

"What is it?" asked the Grognard with a quirked eyebrow.

"Well, I really like the imagery of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy. It's terribly evocative. I love Knights and Wizards and Clerics and Psis and Elves and Dwarves and cat people. I'd love to run this."

"...so do it?" Said the Grognard, already wearying of the discussion.

"Yeah, well..." the GURPS player hesitated. "But look, here's the thing. There's no discussion of culture. Where are the Mage's guilds? And what is Cat Folk culture like? And the game has, like, zero social rules. I mean, how could would it be for the knight to get tangled up in the politics of court? Or to play some orphaned mage-child running one-step ahead of the witch hunters? That would be awesome, but the game has no support for it."

The Grognard sank a little deeper into his seat, already searching for a book, some kind of escape from the conversation. "Its almost like the game is about dungeon crawling..."

"That's just it!" Growled the GURPS player. "Everytime I bring this stuff up, that's what people say! But you know, DF has way more potential than that! Why limit yourself to this? Why just make it about dungeon crawling when it can be so much more? That's the problem with you grognards. You just want everything to be D&D, but what about richer, deeper roleplaying experiences? You know, GURPS really needs some kind of book to support this broader gameplay! Like, a DF expansion about world-building and adding all those other elements in."

The Grognard's eyes darted to the copy of GURPS Fantasy, lying but inches from the GURPS player's fingers. "You don't say."

"Oh!" smirked the GURPS player "Yeah, people say that. One guy on the GURPS forum is like a damn broken record about it. But does it have templates? DF has templates. It makes gameplay easy. You can just jump right in."

The Grognard thumbed through the Fantasy book to the Character creation section and looked through the many, many templates. "Hmmmm..." he said, noncommittally.

"And races. I mean, DF is full of cool races. Does Fantasy have anything that cool?"

The Grognard flipped a few pages back and scanned the page with his eyes.

"Plus DF has an entire book on monsters. Does Fantasy have any monsters?"

The Grognard tired of the game and put the book down, skipping over the section on monsters, unique magic systems, kingdom building, mythologies, histories and alternate planes and entire discussions of the supernatural. "I don't know what to tell you, man. Seems like there's a big gap in the GURPS DF line."

"Clearly." Sniffed the GURPS player.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

Nobody, not even demonologists or necromancers, is required to have SS. And if the guys who deal directly with demons and the undead on the daily basis don't have it, then neither should the guys who are distantly associated with Elder Things. However, you certainly make a cogent case for SS as an option for psis.

The reason why Social Stigma might be quite inappropriate for psionicists is if psionics follow the science fiction tradition of being an ultra-subtle supernatural force, one that doesn't require the arcane implements, strange ingredients, and mysterious chantings and hand gestures of Wizardly magic. It's pretty easy to identify arcanists when they work their magic, whether they're Wizards or Necromancers, or merely Sages who use Wild Talent to get a one-use spell. Psionicsts are much harder to identify, especially if they actively try to conceal the fact that they have psionic abilities.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Does DF have social ramifications? Aren't towns just places where you got to buy gear, get drunk and have people wander in with treasure maps?

Pretty much, yes. 99% true. But I imagine the OP is interested in that last 1%.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

"
The Grognard tired of the game and put the book down, skipping over the section on monsters, unique magic systems, kingdom building, mythologies, histories and alternate planes and entire discussions of the supernatural. "I don't know what to tell you, man. Seems like there's a big gap in the GURPS DF line."

"Clearly." Sniffed the GURPS player.

Love it.
But to the Op you have a lot of good reasons its not required in this thread and a couple of suggestions to make it optional. So if you want your DF game to be more about town and less about delving then its worth looking at as part of your world building.