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Old 08-04-2011, 09:05 AM   #21
Bruno
 
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Default Re: Rolling to stay alive at the end of a Berserk

Having played a Berserk character in a combat heavy game for a while...

Side note to introduce with: Don't forget consciousness checks from turn to turn are modified by how many "death thresholds" you've passed. If you're at -4xHP your consciousness checks are at -4, regardless of how or when you reached -4xHP. See page 419, basic set, under 0 HP or less.

We played with "You snap out of berserk at or below 0 HP" triggering the following: One consciousness check with the normal modifier for wound threshold and any other normal modifiers you have. Certainly not one check for each turn you spent at or below 0 HP. Do NOT apply the +4 from berserking to this check.

We also played with "You snap out of berserk at or below -1xHP" as triggering the following: One survival check, with the usual "fail by 1 or 2 is a mortal wound instead of death". This is regardless of when you became -1xHP or lower - before or after berserking. It doesn't matter either way: a critically injured patient really shouldn't be running around axe-murdering people - it tends to aggravate injuries, and I can only imagine ending berserk causes a sudden drop in blood pressure, which if you're already a little fragile can certainly cause heart failure.

Good things for berserker builds:
HT 12+. Because duh.
Fit, Hard to Kill, Hard to Subdue. Fit is a general HT penalty and helps you recover from any FP spent on Extra Effort while berserk (if your GM allows that rule - it's certainly "in character" for a berserker to burn through FP madly). Hard to Kill and Hard to Subdue help prop you up during and after the berserk state.
Recovery is an alternative to Hard to Subdue - you pass out, but then you get back up again very quickly ;)
High HP totals. High HP totals raise crippling thresholds on your limbs, making it harder for enemies to take you out in one hit. They also raise Major Wound thresholds in general, which is good. It also makes those death-check thresholds and conciousness-check penalties harder to reach.
As much DR as you think you can get away with. You have no active defenses, so passive soaking is key. Stack armor regardless of DX penalties, you'll be spending most of the fight Berserk and AOA-ing anyways, might as well make it AOA-Determined. Just don't slow yourself down too much :)
Luck. Luck luck luck luck luck. I cannot emphasize this enough. A berserker who survives a career spent berserking is crazy lucky. So be crazy lucky.
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:18 AM   #22
mlangsdorf
 
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Default Re: Rolling to stay alive at the end of a Berserk

A couple of other useful berserker advantages:

Injury Tolerance (No Eyes) - anyone with skill 14+ and an impaling or piercing melee weapon can reasonably expect to blind a berserker if he survives the berserker's initial attack. Berserkers who can't see enemies can't continue berserk, so being blind is bad.
Injury Tolerance (No Brain) - Again, berserkers can't defend so Telegraphed Shots to the brain are relatively easy. Even berserkers go down quickly after a couple of blows to the skull.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:50 AM   #23
Rune
 
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Default Re: Rolling to stay alive at the end of a Berserk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha View Post
No, you roll once for consciousness and once for Death just like you would when reaching that level of -HP.
Well, as I said before, I disagree. I'd say you roll for every multiple of HP below zero once you snap out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha View Post
You only ever make the Death Check based on your current wound level, if you have 10 HP and someone takes you from -9 HP to -40 HP you make one Death Check, not 4,
You would only make 4 Death Checks if someone took you down to -HP, then -2xHP, then -3xHP, then -4xHP.
I disagree with this too:
Quote:
Originally Posted by B419
Roll again each time you suffer injury equal to a further multiple of your HP, whether as a result of one wound or many."
I cannot see how this can be interpreted in any other way than you roll for EACH multiple below zero, no matter how you sustained the wound (through 1 or several wounds)
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:00 AM   #24
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Default Re: Rolling to stay alive at the end of a Berserk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rune View Post
Well, as I said before, I disagree. I'd say you roll for every multiple of HP below zero once you snap out.
I disagree :) I't doesn't say "Reroll all your consciousness and survival checks." If you roll only once for consciousness, despite being active for multiple turns below 1 HP, you must also roll only once for survival, despite having possibly passed multiple death thresholds.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rune View Post
I cannot see how this can be interpreted in any other way than you roll for EACH multiple below zero, no matter how you sustained the wound (through 1 or several wounds)
I agree with you here.
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:12 AM   #25
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Default Re: Rolling to stay alive at the end of a Berserk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
I disagree :) I't doesn't say "Reroll all your consciousness and survival checks." If you roll only once for consciousness, despite being active for multiple turns below 1 HP, you must also roll only once for survival, despite having possibly passed multiple death thresholds.
It is a valid point. However, as mentioned previously I build my view on this part of the rules:
Quote:
all your wounds immediately affect you.
You have to roll HT on each multiple no matter the amount of wounds
And all your wounds immediately affect you.
As such I'd say that you have to roll HT checks as if you were going from full HP to you negative multiple of HP again - hence rolling several times if you have several multiples.

The rules say nothing about having to re-roll for every round you were taking actions. Only for all your wounds.

Well, I just wanted to chime in again and explain my position. Obviously others agree with you too, so it is not clear cut.
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:21 AM   #26
Kromm
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Default Re: Rolling to stay alive at the end of a Berserk

Ending your berserk state triggers one extra HT roll for consciousness at 0 or fewer HP, and one extra HT roll for survival at -HP or worse. Both are subject to the usual modifiers (e.g., -1 to consciousness rolls per full multiple of negative HP) and results (e.g., failure by 1-2 on a survival roll means a mortal wound). Neither enjoys the +4. These rolls represent additional chances to fail, over and above what you would face were you not a berserker. You don't keep a laundry list of every HT roll made at +4 and then reroll them without the +4 later; if you did, then Berserk would have a base value of -20 or -30 points, not -10 points.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:18 PM   #27
Rune
 
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Default Re: Rolling to stay alive at the end of a Berserk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Ending your berserk state triggers one extra HT roll for consciousness at 0 or fewer HP, and one extra HT roll for survival at -HP or worse. Both are subject to the usual modifiers (e.g., -1 to consciousness rolls per full multiple of negative HP) and results (e.g., failure by 1-2 on a survival roll means a mortal wound). Neither enjoys the +4. These rolls represent additional chances to fail, over and above what you would face were you not a berserker. You don't keep a laundry list of every HT roll made at +4 and then reroll them without the +4 later; if you did, then Berserk would have a base value of -20 or -30 points, not -10 points.
Thank you for the clarification. It was apparently much needed for the community :)
However, I'd like to add, that you certainly would not need a 'laundry list' to check your current amount negative multiples of HP. It should be right there on the character sheet.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:30 PM   #28
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Default Re: Rolling to stay alive at the end of a Berserk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rune View Post
Thank you for the clarification. It was apparently much needed for the community :)
However, I'd like to add, that you certainly would not need a 'laundry list' to check your current amount negative multiples of HP. It should be right there on the character sheet.
That's different from the number of death check thresholds you crossed, number of Major Wounds you took, etc.
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Old 08-04-2011, 02:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: Rolling to stay alive at the end of a Berserk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
... clarifies ...
Yey, so I was running it correctly all this time anyway, good to know. Although now I'm concerned over...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha View Post
You would only make 4 Death Checks if someone took you down to -HP, then -2xHP, then -3xHP, then -4xHP.
As I was under the impression you'd roll each of them even if you went from 0 to -4xHP. Considering, ya know, you just got hit for 4 times your HPs there - that calls for some pretty flukey survival, probably more so that the aggregation of smaller wounds that equals to that amount.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:32 PM   #30
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Default Re: Rolling to stay alive at the end of a Berserk

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Originally Posted by PseudoFenton View Post
As I was under the impression you'd roll each of them even if you went from 0 to -4xHP. Considering, ya know, you just got hit for 4 times your HPs there - that calls for some pretty flukey survival, probably more so that the aggregation of smaller wounds that equals to that amount.
Our face-to-face group certainly has been playing it as "roll once for every breakpoint you pass, even if you pass them all in one swell foop". Sort of the GURPS answer to the D&D "Massive damage" rule, and takes a little wind out of effective-HT-15-characters.

I'm not sure if it ever came up in mlangsdorfs game with my character, 20+ HPs and good DR tends to make those sorts of one-hit-all-your-HPs shots rare.
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